Is it honorable to force men or women to wear veils or any particular garment?

What do they believe? What do you think? Talk about religion as it exists today.
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Gnostic Bishop
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Re: Is it honorable to force men or women to wear veils or any particular garment?

Post by Gnostic Bishop » Tue Dec 05, 2017 9:58 am

nili wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:26 am
Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:12 am
Most churches and mosques are run by men who impose dress codes and decide on what the punishment will be for infractions. In Islam, to the point of Honor Killing.
With how many mosques are you familiar?

I live relatively near five mosques, have visited all of them, and have met women from all of them. There is zero reason to believe that any of them dictate a dress code for women in public, much less advocate "Honor Killing." Your rhetorical question is little more that bigotry proffered in a disingenuous (if not cowardy) way.
Yet it is estimated that 5,000 Muslim women are subjected to Honor Killing yearly.

Thanks for your anecdotal rendering that ignores the bigger picture.

Regards
DL

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DCHindley
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Re: Is it honorable to force men or women to wear veils or any particular garment?

Post by DCHindley » Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:11 am

Gnostic Bishop wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:12 am
Thanks for this [DCH].

You did not answer the question though.

Is it honorable to force men or women to wear veils or any particular garment?

Most churches and mosques are run by men who impose dress codes and decide on what the punishment will be for infractions. In Islam, to the point of Honor Killing.

Is there any honor in using force to have people comply with un-proven religious customs, or killing the women who refuse?

Regards
DL
So, you do not consider it "honorable" to "dictate" a dress code? Your language is a little "loaded," which I did not notice at first. Why the chip on your shoulder?

Amish boys & girls do not join the church until they are baptised as adults. They believe in baptism as a member of their faith only after making a dedication to follow god in their traditions. Until then (around age 21 for most) they are in a period they call "rumspragah" (sp?) which means "free room" of something like that. Lost of Amish girls go to bars or clubs, wear makeup, smoke cigarettes and maybe try drugs a bit. Boys also smoke, try drugs, get into fights, maybe buy a car which they hide in the family cornfield even though their parents usually know about it. One Amish man who ran an interior trim business told me they loose about 15% of their youth (that means they do not become members). They might decide to go Baptist or low order Mennonite, or nothing at all, and there is no penalty for this kind of thing. They have followed their conscience.

I do not know whether Islam (or one or more of the variants of Islam out there) has a tradition for adult "confirmation," although I don't think so. It is the more fanatical factions of Islam who blow up mosques of other factions in suicide attacks. White "crackers" types have also attacked people they despise, lynching them in the "old days" or "cracking" heads. We used to call them the KKK. Honor killing, where it occurs in Islam, is cultural. I think that Saudi rulers recognized that westerners have different cultural values, so they have the US military personnel (including female soldiers driving cars, etc.) in bases that are isolated from Saudi society to avoid clashes. Shopping malls, mixed bathing pools and beaches, and all that. Sucide bombers do not seem to target these facilities.

But like I mentioned before, we in the USA had a tradition, only about 100 years ago, in which women were property of men and a man had the right to beat his wife for no good reason. We consider ourselves more sophisticated than that today, although the sexual harassment scandals show that many men still like to push around women like they owned all they can see. But I have worked for or seen many managers (men and women) who were tyrants, building mini-feifdoms and bullying their employees, regardless of sex, relentlessly to advance their agendas, played out like a game of chess with the employees as pawns. I do hate all game players, men or women, who callously play their games with human lives. Sometimes I can sympathize with anarchists who want to tear down that whole crappy system in hopes that people, allowed to the inherent good in everybody, will build a better society, but I think this is probably just a pipe dream.

DCH (back to work)

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Gnostic Bishop
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Re: Is it honorable to force men or women to wear veils or any particular garment?

Post by Gnostic Bishop » Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:32 am

Thanks for this [DCH].

You did not answer the question though.

Is it honorable to force men or women to wear veils or any particular garment?

Regards
DL

Nasruddin
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Re: Is it honorable to force men or women to wear veils or any particular garment?

Post by Nasruddin » Sat Dec 16, 2017 11:11 am

All clothing is artificial. It only serves a purpose for warmth or sexual enhancement. A human's natural state is naked, but all persons are forced to wear clothing in public. Yes it is wrong to force another to behave against nature. All people should walk naked.

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Gnostic Bishop
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Re: Is it honorable to force men or women to wear veils or any particular garment?

Post by Gnostic Bishop » Fri Jan 05, 2018 6:06 am

Thanks for this.

Regards
DL

archibald
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Re: Is it honorable to force men or women to wear veils or any particular garment?

Post by archibald » Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:01 am

I think that enforcing dress codes can be justified and can be benign, possibly even positive.

By and large though, I think it's better when people can choose for themselves.

And I think that the covering-up 'rules' for women in Islam are, amongst other things, deeply sexist.

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Gnostic Bishop
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Re: Is it honorable to force men or women to wear veils or any particular garment?

Post by Gnostic Bishop » Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:53 am

archibald wrote:
Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:01 am
I think that enforcing dress codes can be justified and can be benign, possibly even positive.

By and large though, I think it's better when people can choose for themselves.

And I think that the covering-up 'rules' for women in Islam are, amongst other things, deeply sexist.
Well put and I agree.

Regards
DL

neilgodfrey
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Re: Is it honorable to force men or women to wear veils or any particular garment?

Post by neilgodfrey » Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:22 am

When in South-East Asia if I wish to visit certain temples I am dishonorably forced to wear a sash around my waist. Sometimes I am forced to remove my shoes. In New Guinea male children grow up being forced to wear penis sheaths. Anthropology is the study of the dishonorable. Humans are universally forced to display certain types of dress, follow certain diets, control body impulses, .... all dishonorably arbitrary, the mere whim of social customs.

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Gnostic Bishop
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Re: Is it honorable to force men or women to wear veils or any particular garment?

Post by Gnostic Bishop » Sun Jan 14, 2018 1:37 pm

neilgodfrey wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:22 am
When in South-East Asia if I wish to visit certain temples I am dishonorably forced to wear a sash around my waist. Sometimes I am forced to remove my shoes. In New Guinea male children grow up being forced to wear penis sheaths. Anthropology is the study of the dishonorable. Humans are universally forced to display certain types of dress, follow certain diets, control body impulses, .... all dishonorably arbitrary, the mere whim of social customs.
Indeed, but few Honor killing ideologies.

Did you forget the issues at hand?

Regards
DL

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