Forthcoming Markus Vinzent books [& his recent publications]

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
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Ben C. Smith
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Re: Forthcoming Markus Vinzent books [& his recent publications]

Post by Ben C. Smith »

MrMacSon wrote: Thu Dec 27, 2018 9:06 pmAnd Rüpke also made a lot of the Shepherd of Hermas and a few other texts....
I really must make it a point to get a better handle on the Shepherd of Hermas someday. I really have very little idea of where it might fit in to the overall scheme of things.
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MrMacSon
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Re: Forthcoming Markus Vinzent books [& his recent publications]

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Ben C. Smith wrote: Thu Dec 27, 2018 8:32 pm
....
In the literary environment of the Roman Empire as described, nothing was more natural than to write a Greek-language “biography” as a founding document for a new religious network.
....
Pantheon: A New History of Roman Religion
.
Good quote overall, but I personally question this line. I have argued that none of the gospel literature gives us an example of Greco-Roman biography. Almost certainly none of their antecedents would, either.

Rüpke certainly seems to have overstated the the gospel and apocryphal literature as an example of Greco-Roman 'biography', but maybe he was 'on a roll' having previously said [single 'quotation marks' mine] -

.
Religious practices and ideas were only gradually brought within the remit of biographical narratives. It was probably shortly before the death of Domitian (AD 96) that Plutarch wrote the first proper biography of Rome’s second king, Numa, to whom he also first ascribed the role of pontifex. This was vexing, as Numa had previously been described as the founder of Rome’s religious institutions, but not as an actor within them. In making this attribution, Plutarch was probably responding to the Flavians’ desire to conflate the ethical grounding of the ruler with his priestly roles, especially the supreme pontificate [Plutarch may also have been personally influenced by the deification of the emperors since Augustus]. Numa, as a Pythagorean philosopher and a king, thus conformed to the ideal of a philosopher-king, with the addition now, for the first time, of a religious element.

Flavius Josephus took up the biographical schema, turned it into autobiography, and set it within an imperial frame. He began with a reference to his priestly and royal origins (1), and ended by referring to his relationship with Augusta Domitia, and to the unremitting good services she had performed for him (429). At the same time that Josephus in Rome expounded on the Jewish War, Plutarch and soon also Suetonius were writing their multiple biographies. By the midsecond century at the latest, these texts were joined by many gospels and acts of the apostles, whose production continued without let-up through the third century. Marcion’s interest in biography was not exercised solely in his gospel, but also in his selection of Paul’s letters, which allowed readers to follow the apostle from Jerusalem to Rome. Pythagorean vitae began to circulate. To the already familiar types of narrative —stories of exemplary lives or of extraordinary phenomena, such as those of Apollonius of Tyana— were added conversion stories.

To the already familiar types of narrative... were added conversion stories. All of this literary activity likely reached only a small fraction of the people living around the Mediterranean; but - in a rudimentary, paradigmatic form - the 'biographical schema' certainly reached much further. By its...capacity for extension, and flexibility, it permitted authors to impart religious knowledge in a way that facilitated an emotional relationship akin to identification with the life retold, thus easing the recipient’s way to appropriating the values and lessons embodied in the texts.

Rüpke, Jörg. Pantheon: A New History of Roman Religion (p. 344). Princeton University Press. Kindle Edition.

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DCHindley
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Re: Forthcoming Markus Vinzent books [& his recent publications]

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Ben C. Smith wrote: Thu Dec 27, 2018 8:32 pmGood quote overall, but I personally question this line. I have argued that none of the gospel literature gives us an example of Greco-Roman biography. Almost certainly none of their antecedents would, either.
You should add the "Trademark" symbol ™ after "I have argued" to set this off as your unique "riff."

Of course™ ... :whistling:

DCH
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Re: Forthcoming Markus Vinzent books [& his recent publications]

Post by Ben C. Smith »

DCHindley wrote: Thu Dec 27, 2018 10:25 pm
Ben C. Smith wrote: Thu Dec 27, 2018 8:32 pmGood quote overall, but I personally question this line. I have argued that none of the gospel literature gives us an example of Greco-Roman biography. Almost certainly none of their antecedents would, either.
You should add the "Trademark" symbol ™ after "I have argued" to set this off as your unique "riff."

Of course™ ... :whistling:
I feel like having made an argument somewhere about a given topic regarding early Christian history should hardly be the trademark of a single individual poster on a forum which is all about debating early Christian history. :D
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Re: Forthcoming Markus Vinzent books [& his recent publications]

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Ben C. Smith wrote: Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:04 am
DCHindley wrote: Thu Dec 27, 2018 10:25 pm
Ben C. Smith wrote: Thu Dec 27, 2018 8:32 pmGood quote overall, but I personally question this line. I have argued that none of the gospel literature gives us an example of Greco-Roman biography. Almost certainly none of their antecedents would, either.
You should add the "Trademark" symbol ™ after "I have argued" to set this off as your unique "riff."

Of course™ ... :whistling:
I feel like having made an argument somewhere about a given topic regarding early Christian history should hardly be the trademark of a single individual poster on a forum which is all about debating early Christian history. :D
Just my way of tipping my hat to you. You have posted many many detailed and well researched posts over the years, and sometimes mortals like me become forgetful. :notworthy:

DCH :goodmorning:
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Re: Forthcoming Markus Vinzent books [& his recent publications]

Post by Ben C. Smith »

Thanks, David. :cheers:
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