But the Marcionites recognized Isu Chrestos, not Christ. To be honest, unless I want to emphasize a certain point, I use christ and chrestos interchangeably. Maybe to my discredit, but it's easier than jumping from one to the other.Ben C. Smith wrote: ↑Fri May 18, 2018 11:18 amOkay, but ישר appears some 161 times in the Hebrew scriptures, while χρηστός appears some 30 times in the Old Greek, and only once does the latter translate the former (in Proverbs 2.21, as you point out). That is not the usual pairing, and χρηστός is not the same as χριστός anyway.Joseph D. L. wrote: ↑Fri May 18, 2018 10:51 amExcuse me. I meant ישר, yashar, which is translated in the Septuagint as chrestos in the Septuagint. (Proverbs 2:21)Ben C. Smith wrote: ↑Fri May 18, 2018 5:28 amI am not sure what you mean here. Christ is the English transliteration of Latin Christus, which is the Latin transliteration of the Greek Χριστός, which was used to translate the Hebrew משיח (Mashiach/Messiah) in the Old Greek. The two words above, ישוע and ישו, are just two variants of the same Hebrew name (Joshua/Jesus); neither of them means Christ/Christus/Χριστός/Anointed.Joseph D. L. wrote: ↑Thu May 17, 2018 9:42 pm Jesus and Christ are very similar in appearance to each other in Hebrew. (ישוע and ישו respectively).
One website I looked at did translate ישו as christ. I can't read or speak Hebrew, so I'm not able to instantly recognize Hebrew words.
So just chalk this up to me being human and making a mistake.
The usual Old Greek translation of ישר is εὐθύς.
In short, ישר does not mean Christ in any way. It is in the Old Greek translated exactly once as χρηστός, which merely sounds similar to χριστός: the actual basis for the word Christ.
After all, there is evidence that chrestos was used as a mystical substitute for christos in Alexandria by the first century bc.
What I am suggesting is this is a product of midrashic/pesher interpretation, wherein otherwise dissimilar passages are conflated to discover some hidden meaning.
But my original comment, made on a different post, was that ישו and ישר are are not too dissimilar, and that the reference of the Christ/Chrestos being cut off, alluded to the resh (an abbreviation for this principle) being cut off from vav, forming the name ישו, Yeshu.
This could be the reason Jesus/Isu and Christ/Chrestos are used interchangeably in Pauline Christianity, because they were both indicative of the same concept, based on a pesher reading of the Greek Daniel 9:26 andProverbs 12:21. I have also wondered if Genesis 1:3-4, also fed into this, as John seems to equate Jesus with this light, which is "good" (even though it's not translated as chrestos in the Septuagint).
Trying to get into the heads of people who lived over two thousand years ago is nigh impossible. I think I have made it abundantly clear that most of what I write is speculation, to see what could work and what doesn't work.