Examples of Pseudo-Isidore forged letters from Ante Nicene epoch?
- Leucius Charinus
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Re: Examples of Pseudo-Isidore forged letters from Ante Nicene epoch?
The way to do this these days is OCR + machine translation. I consider the OCR to be a pain to do, so if you would do that, it would be very helpful. One free OCR service that I know about is Google Drive. If you put images or PDFs in Google Drive and then choose to "open in Google Docs," you get a free OCR from Google.Leucius Charinus wrote: ↑Tue Jun 06, 2023 9:44 pm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudo-Isidore
External links
* "Projekt Pseudoisidor" (older online edition-in-progress of the False Decretals, now discontinued), Monumenta Germaniae Historica. (in German and Latin)
http://www.pseudoisidor.mgh.de/
* The False Capitularies of Benedictus Levita, Monumenta Germaniae Historica. (in German and Latin).
http://www.benedictus.mgh.de/haupt.htm
* "Opera Omnia" by Migne Patrologia Latina, with analytical indexes. (in Latin)
http://www.documentacatholicaomnia.eu/3 ... cator.html
* Pseudo-Isidore: An Edition-in-Progress of the False Decretals
https://pseudo-isidore.com/
Do any of these links lead to these 60 Ante-Nicene letters?
(I don't know German and my Latin is poor)
It's actually okay for this text to be a bit messy and have typos from the OCR stage.
If you can do that, I will run it through machine translation. I have subscribed to ChatGPT Plus for this purpose. It handles German and Latin fine.
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Re: Examples of Pseudo-Isidore forged letters from Ante Nicene epoch?
This is Isodore Mercator OKA the False Decretals see Pseudo-IsidoreLeucius Charinus wrote: ↑Tue Jun 06, 2023 9:51 pm What is this Latin document dated 1550?
http://www.documentacatholicaomnia.eu/0 ... m,_MLT.pdf
Andrew Criddle
- Leucius Charinus
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Re: Examples of Pseudo-Isidore forged letters from Ante Nicene epoch?
Thanks.andrewcriddle wrote: ↑Thu Jun 08, 2023 8:24 amThis is Isodore Mercator OKA the False Decretals see Pseudo-IsidoreLeucius Charinus wrote: ↑Tue Jun 06, 2023 9:51 pm What is this Latin document dated 1550?
http://www.documentacatholicaomnia.eu/0 ... m,_MLT.pdf
Andrew Criddle
- Leucius Charinus
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Re: Examples of Pseudo-Isidore forged letters from Ante Nicene epoch?
At the moment I am still looking for some version of the source text as set out in the OP. That is the sixty apocryphal letters or decrees attributed to the popes from St. Clement (88-97) to Melchiades (311-314) inclusive. These must be located somewhere within the Pseudo-Isidore material and I have been interested in trying to find them.Peter Kirby wrote: ↑Tue Jun 06, 2023 9:55 pmThe way to do this these days is OCR + machine translation. I consider the OCR to be a pain to do, so if you would do that, it would be very helpful. One free OCR service that I know about is Google Drive. If you put images or PDFs in Google Drive and then choose to "open in Google Docs," you get a free OCR from Google.Leucius Charinus wrote: ↑Tue Jun 06, 2023 9:44 pm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudo-Isidore
External links
* "Projekt Pseudoisidor" (older online edition-in-progress of the False Decretals, now discontinued), Monumenta Germaniae Historica. (in German and Latin)
http://www.pseudoisidor.mgh.de/
* The False Capitularies of Benedictus Levita, Monumenta Germaniae Historica. (in German and Latin).
http://www.benedictus.mgh.de/haupt.htm
* "Opera Omnia" by Migne Patrologia Latina, with analytical indexes. (in Latin)
http://www.documentacatholicaomnia.eu/3 ... cator.html
* Pseudo-Isidore: An Edition-in-Progress of the False Decretals
https://pseudo-isidore.com/
Do any of these links lead to these 60 Ante-Nicene letters?
(I don't know German and my Latin is poor)
It's actually okay for this text to be a bit messy and have typos from the OCR stage.
If you can do that, I will run it through machine translation. I have subscribed to ChatGPT Plus for this purpose. It handles German and Latin fine.
But so far without success.
I used to correspond with Eric Knibbs but his website has not been online.
https://pseudo-isidore.com/
https://www.aarome.org/people/rome-priz ... ric-knibbs
- Peter Kirby
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Re: Examples of Pseudo-Isidore forged letters from Ante Nicene epoch?
Are they in Migne Patrologia Latina?Leucius Charinus wrote: ↑Sun Jun 11, 2023 3:00 amAt the moment I am still looking for some version of the source text as set out in the OP. That is the sixty apocryphal letters or decrees attributed to the popes from St. Clement (88-97) to Melchiades (311-314) inclusive. These must be located somewhere within the Pseudo-Isidore material and I have been interested in trying to find them.Peter Kirby wrote: ↑Tue Jun 06, 2023 9:55 pmThe way to do this these days is OCR + machine translation. I consider the OCR to be a pain to do, so if you would do that, it would be very helpful. One free OCR service that I know about is Google Drive. If you put images or PDFs in Google Drive and then choose to "open in Google Docs," you get a free OCR from Google.Leucius Charinus wrote: ↑Tue Jun 06, 2023 9:44 pm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudo-Isidore
External links
* "Projekt Pseudoisidor" (older online edition-in-progress of the False Decretals, now discontinued), Monumenta Germaniae Historica. (in German and Latin)
http://www.pseudoisidor.mgh.de/
* The False Capitularies of Benedictus Levita, Monumenta Germaniae Historica. (in German and Latin).
http://www.benedictus.mgh.de/haupt.htm
* "Opera Omnia" by Migne Patrologia Latina, with analytical indexes. (in Latin)
http://www.documentacatholicaomnia.eu/3 ... cator.html
* Pseudo-Isidore: An Edition-in-Progress of the False Decretals
https://pseudo-isidore.com/
Do any of these links lead to these 60 Ante-Nicene letters?
(I don't know German and my Latin is poor)
It's actually okay for this text to be a bit messy and have typos from the OCR stage.
If you can do that, I will run it through machine translation. I have subscribed to ChatGPT Plus for this purpose. It handles German and Latin fine.
But so far without success.
I used to correspond with Eric Knibbs but his website has not been online.
https://pseudo-isidore.com/
https://www.aarome.org/people/rome-priz ... ric-knibbs
- Leucius Charinus
- Posts: 2853
- Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 4:23 pm
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Re: Examples of Pseudo-Isidore forged letters from Ante Nicene epoch?
Peter Kirby wrote: ↑Sun Jun 11, 2023 2:40 pmAre they in Migne Patrologia Latina?Leucius Charinus wrote: ↑Sun Jun 11, 2023 3:00 amAt the moment I am still looking for some version of the source text as set out in the OP. That is the sixty apocryphal letters or decrees attributed to the popes from St. Clement (88-97) to Melchiades (311-314) inclusive. These must be located somewhere within the Pseudo-Isidore material and I have been interested in trying to find them.Peter Kirby wrote: ↑Tue Jun 06, 2023 9:55 pmThe way to do this these days is OCR + machine translation. I consider the OCR to be a pain to do, so if you would do that, it would be very helpful. One free OCR service that I know about is Google Drive. If you put images or PDFs in Google Drive and then choose to "open in Google Docs," you get a free OCR from Google.Leucius Charinus wrote: ↑Tue Jun 06, 2023 9:44 pm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudo-Isidore
External links
* "Projekt Pseudoisidor" (older online edition-in-progress of the False Decretals, now discontinued), Monumenta Germaniae Historica. (in German and Latin)
http://www.pseudoisidor.mgh.de/
* The False Capitularies of Benedictus Levita, Monumenta Germaniae Historica. (in German and Latin).
http://www.benedictus.mgh.de/haupt.htm
* "Opera Omnia" by Migne Patrologia Latina, with analytical indexes. (in Latin)
http://www.documentacatholicaomnia.eu/3 ... cator.html
* Pseudo-Isidore: An Edition-in-Progress of the False Decretals
https://pseudo-isidore.com/
Do any of these links lead to these 60 Ante-Nicene letters?
(I don't know German and my Latin is poor)
It's actually okay for this text to be a bit messy and have typos from the OCR stage.
If you can do that, I will run it through machine translation. I have subscribed to ChatGPT Plus for this purpose. It handles German and Latin fine.
But so far without success.
I used to correspond with Eric Knibbs but his website has not been online.
https://pseudo-isidore.com/
https://www.aarome.org/people/rome-priz ... ric-knibbs
It seems to be the case but IDK
andrewcriddle wrote: ↑Thu Jun 08, 2023 8:24 amThis is Isodore Mercator OKA the False Decretals see Pseudo-IsidoreLeucius Charinus wrote: ↑Tue Jun 06, 2023 9:51 pm What is this Latin document dated 1550?
http://www.documentacatholicaomnia.eu/0 ... m,_MLT.pdf
The following from WIKI:
Editions
Efforts to publish the forgeries have been unsuccessful, with the Hispana Gallica Augustodunensis never published. Although several editions of the Capitularia Benedicti Levitae exist, the most recent (Monumenta Germaniae Historica, Leges, folio II, 2, 1831) is scholastically inferior to the 1677 Étienne Baluze edition. The False Decretals and the Capitula Angilramni have been published twice, with the 1863 edition by Paul Hinschius criticized for his choice of manuscripts. Hinschius also printed the genuine and interpolated parts of the collection by reprinting older versions of Pseudo-Isidore's genuine sources, making that portion of his edition critically unusable. Historians must return to J. Merlin's 1525 edition, based on a single 13th-century manuscript and reprinted in volume 130 of Jacques Paul Migne's Patrologia Latina.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudo-Isidore
Efforts to publish the forgeries have been unsuccessful, with the Hispana Gallica Augustodunensis never published. Although several editions of the Capitularia Benedicti Levitae exist, the most recent (Monumenta Germaniae Historica, Leges, folio II, 2, 1831) is scholastically inferior to the 1677 Étienne Baluze edition. The False Decretals and the Capitula Angilramni have been published twice, with the 1863 edition by Paul Hinschius criticized for his choice of manuscripts. Hinschius also printed the genuine and interpolated parts of the collection by reprinting older versions of Pseudo-Isidore's genuine sources, making that portion of his edition critically unusable. Historians must return to J. Merlin's 1525 edition, based on a single 13th-century manuscript and reprinted in volume 130 of Jacques Paul Migne's Patrologia Latina.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudo-Isidore
Does the Latin document dated 1550 (linked to above) contain these sixty apocryphal letters or decrees from the ante Nicene age? I am unable to tell. Any assistance would be welcomed.
- Peter Kirby
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Re: Examples of Pseudo-Isidore forged letters from Ante Nicene epoch?
I think we're in luck. We don't have to use Migne.Leucius Charinus wrote: ↑Sun Jun 11, 2023 6:44 pm Does the Latin document dated 1550 (linked to above) contain these sixty apocryphal letters or decrees from the ante Nicene age? I am unable to tell. Any assistance would be welcomed.
This has all the falsified papal letters before Pope Sylvester:
http://www.pseudoisidor.mgh.de/html/teil_i.html
This has all those after:
http://www.pseudoisidor.mgh.de/html/teil_iii.html
This has the councils:
http://www.pseudoisidor.mgh.de/html/teil_ii.html
- Leucius Charinus
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Re: Examples of Pseudo-Isidore forged letters from Ante Nicene epoch?
Peter Kirby wrote: ↑Sun Jun 11, 2023 10:00 pmI think we're in luck. We don't have to use Migne.Leucius Charinus wrote: ↑Sun Jun 11, 2023 6:44 pm Does the Latin document dated 1550 (linked to above) contain these sixty apocryphal letters or decrees from the ante Nicene age? I am unable to tell. Any assistance would be welcomed.
This has all the falsified papal letters before Pope Sylvester:
http://www.pseudoisidor.mgh.de/html/teil_i.html
This has all those after:
http://www.pseudoisidor.mgh.de/html/teil_iii.html
This has the councils:
http://www.pseudoisidor.mgh.de/html/teil_ii.html
Many thanks for confirming this. Will take some time to trawl through this stuff.
- Leucius Charinus
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Re: Examples of Pseudo-Isidore forged letters from Ante Nicene epoch?
1. Letter of Clemens
HTML format (text and handwritten tradition only)
PDF format (Text, manuscript tradition, sources and reception)
2. Letter of Clemens
HTML format (text and handwritten tradition only)
PDF format (Text, manuscript tradition, sources and reception)
3. Letter of Clemens
HTML format (text and handwritten tradition only)
PDF format (Text, manuscript tradition, sources and reception)
4. Letter of Clemens
HTML format (text and handwritten tradition only)
PDF format (Text, manuscript tradition, sources and reception)
5. Letter of Clemens
HTML format (text and handwritten tradition only)
PDF format (Text, manuscript tradition, sources and reception)
The first of the five forged Pseudo-Isidore letters from the 9th century in the name of Clement
https://www-pseudoisidor-mgh-de.transla ... r_pto=wapp
HTML format (text and handwritten tradition only)
PDF format (Text, manuscript tradition, sources and reception)
2. Letter of Clemens
HTML format (text and handwritten tradition only)
PDF format (Text, manuscript tradition, sources and reception)
3. Letter of Clemens
HTML format (text and handwritten tradition only)
PDF format (Text, manuscript tradition, sources and reception)
4. Letter of Clemens
HTML format (text and handwritten tradition only)
PDF format (Text, manuscript tradition, sources and reception)
5. Letter of Clemens
HTML format (text and handwritten tradition only)
PDF format (Text, manuscript tradition, sources and reception)
The first of the five forged Pseudo-Isidore letters from the 9th century in the name of Clement
https://www-pseudoisidor-mgh-de.transla ... r_pto=wapp
1. Clemens-Brief
A367, f. 9 V630, f. 6vb; N442, f. 8 I83, f. 7 rb; VD38, f. 6r; Bcan4, f. 20v; E97, f. 5 P102; BII13, f. 7ra
BEGINNING 1 EPISTLE 2 OF CLEMENT 3 TO JAMES THE BROTHER OF THE LORD 4 .
P102; BII13 : 1 5 That Simon Peter, in the truth of the faith 6 by merit, was the first of the first choice of the Lord's apostles, and that he willingly ended his present life by suffering Rome
[H. 1] Clement to James the Lord and 7 bishop of bishops, ruler of the holy church of the Hebrews in Jerusalem 8 , but <Bcan4, f. 21r> and all the churches, which have been founded everywhere by the providence of God, with the priests and deacons and all the rest of the brothers, peace be with you always.
I make it known to you, sir, that Simon Peter, who by the merit of the true faith and the complete preaching obtained 9 was determined to be the foundation of the church 10 , for which 11 reason he was also surnamed by the Lord's mouth <BII13, f. 7rb> was born 12 Peter, who was the first choice 13 of the Lord 14 , the first of the apostles, to whom and first God the Father 15 revealed the Son, to whom Christ competently 16 brought happiness, who was both called 17 and chosen and guest of the Lord 18 and count 19 results 20 , as good and approved<I83, f. 7va> we are the disciple of the west 21 of the darkest world <VD38, f. 6v> He was commanded to illuminate the plague as if it were the most powerful of all, and he was able to fulfill the commandment 22 - but how long shall I prolong the discourse 24 and retreat 25 to tell what is sad, what indeed it is necessary, albeit slowly, to utter. Finally, Peter himself, who, because of the immense love he had for all men, did not stop preaching the good of the whole world and the king of all ages throughout the world, and even to the knowledge of this very city of Rome, with all confidence, even against a tyrant . that she might be saved, she brought 28 , here 29 , I say, willing to suffer for 30 31 piety, she ended her present life.
And in the very days in which he was about to find the end of his life, 33 he was placed in the congregation 34 of the brothers, and, grasping my hand, suddenly rising up in the ears of the whole church , 35 he uttered these words 36 : Hear me, my brothers and fellow workers, because 37 , as 38 I have been taught by to him who sent 39 me, the lord and <I83, f. 7vb> Master 40 Jesus Christ, the day of my death is approaching.
Bcan4 : II
P102; BII13 : II 41 That Peter ordained the clement bishop of the Romans and handed over the chair to him
[H. 2] Clement 42 I order this bishop to you 43 , to whom alone my preaching <E97, f. 5vb> and I hand over the chair of doctrine 44 , which to me from <BII13, f. 7va> from the beginning to the end the count was in everything, and by this he recognized the truth of all my preaching, who in all my trials was a companion faithfully persevering, whom I experienced above 45 others as a god-worshiper, careful of men, chaste, devoted to the pursuits of learning, sober , kind, just, patient, knowing how to bear the injuries even of some of these 46 who are instituted in the word of God 47 . Because of that 48 I deliver myself from the master <A367, f. 9vb> the power handed down to me <V630, f. 7ra> of binding and loosing, so that whatever he has decreed on earth , this decree may also be in heaven. For he will bind what ought to be bound, and pay what is expedient to be paid, as one who knows the rule of the church to 50 liquidation. 51 therefore hear him knowing, because whoever 52 grieves <N442, f. 8vb> the teacher of the truth, sins against Christ and the father of all exa<I83, f. 8ra>rebats the god, because of which also 53 life will be lacking 54 . But he, who presides over the rest, must act as a physician , and not be moved by the fury of a wild beast.
etc etc etc
A367, f. 9 V630, f. 6vb; N442, f. 8 I83, f. 7 rb; VD38, f. 6r; Bcan4, f. 20v; E97, f. 5 P102; BII13, f. 7ra
BEGINNING 1 EPISTLE 2 OF CLEMENT 3 TO JAMES THE BROTHER OF THE LORD 4 .
P102; BII13 : 1 5 That Simon Peter, in the truth of the faith 6 by merit, was the first of the first choice of the Lord's apostles, and that he willingly ended his present life by suffering Rome
[H. 1] Clement to James the Lord and 7 bishop of bishops, ruler of the holy church of the Hebrews in Jerusalem 8 , but <Bcan4, f. 21r> and all the churches, which have been founded everywhere by the providence of God, with the priests and deacons and all the rest of the brothers, peace be with you always.
I make it known to you, sir, that Simon Peter, who by the merit of the true faith and the complete preaching obtained 9 was determined to be the foundation of the church 10 , for which 11 reason he was also surnamed by the Lord's mouth <BII13, f. 7rb> was born 12 Peter, who was the first choice 13 of the Lord 14 , the first of the apostles, to whom and first God the Father 15 revealed the Son, to whom Christ competently 16 brought happiness, who was both called 17 and chosen and guest of the Lord 18 and count 19 results 20 , as good and approved<I83, f. 7va> we are the disciple of the west 21 of the darkest world <VD38, f. 6v> He was commanded to illuminate the plague as if it were the most powerful of all, and he was able to fulfill the commandment 22 - but how long shall I prolong the discourse 24 and retreat 25 to tell what is sad, what indeed it is necessary, albeit slowly, to utter. Finally, Peter himself, who, because of the immense love he had for all men, did not stop preaching the good of the whole world and the king of all ages throughout the world, and even to the knowledge of this very city of Rome, with all confidence, even against a tyrant . that she might be saved, she brought 28 , here 29 , I say, willing to suffer for 30 31 piety, she ended her present life.
And in the very days in which he was about to find the end of his life, 33 he was placed in the congregation 34 of the brothers, and, grasping my hand, suddenly rising up in the ears of the whole church , 35 he uttered these words 36 : Hear me, my brothers and fellow workers, because 37 , as 38 I have been taught by to him who sent 39 me, the lord and <I83, f. 7vb> Master 40 Jesus Christ, the day of my death is approaching.
Bcan4 : II
P102; BII13 : II 41 That Peter ordained the clement bishop of the Romans and handed over the chair to him
[H. 2] Clement 42 I order this bishop to you 43 , to whom alone my preaching <E97, f. 5vb> and I hand over the chair of doctrine 44 , which to me from <BII13, f. 7va> from the beginning to the end the count was in everything, and by this he recognized the truth of all my preaching, who in all my trials was a companion faithfully persevering, whom I experienced above 45 others as a god-worshiper, careful of men, chaste, devoted to the pursuits of learning, sober , kind, just, patient, knowing how to bear the injuries even of some of these 46 who are instituted in the word of God 47 . Because of that 48 I deliver myself from the master <A367, f. 9vb> the power handed down to me <V630, f. 7ra> of binding and loosing, so that whatever he has decreed on earth , this decree may also be in heaven. For he will bind what ought to be bound, and pay what is expedient to be paid, as one who knows the rule of the church to 50 liquidation. 51 therefore hear him knowing, because whoever 52 grieves <N442, f. 8vb> the teacher of the truth, sins against Christ and the father of all exa<I83, f. 8ra>rebats the god, because of which also 53 life will be lacking 54 . But he, who presides over the rest, must act as a physician , and not be moved by the fury of a wild beast.
etc etc etc