evidence of a PRE-CHRISTIAN Joshua cult in Paul

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Giuseppe
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evidence of a PRE-CHRISTIAN Joshua cult in Paul

Post by Giuseppe » Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:46 pm

Why Paul met pre-Christians at Corinth:

Because he points out that he has come to Corinth to preach not simple Jesus Christ, but the crucifixion and resurrection of Christ.

The Christ has not sent Paul to baptize - because they were already baptized.

1 Corinthians 1:17-18
For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with wisdom and eloquence, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.

1 Corinthians 2:2
For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified.


The famous passage of 1 Corinthians 15:3-8:
3 For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that he appeared to Cephas, and then to the Twelve. 6 After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers and sisters at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. 7 Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, 8 and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.

...the principal claim is the following:

I passed on to you that Christ died for our sins

...but that claim assumes that his readers know already who is Christ. They only didn't know about the death of the Christ.
Hence the sense is: I passed on to you that the Christ of your knowledge died for our sins.

He has not in mind a generic definition of Christ, but the precise Christ already known by Corinthians.

In addition, Paul points out that the first information given by him was just the information of the death of the Christ:

For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins

Other evidence of a pre-christian Jesus cult is in 1 Corinthians 11:20-22:

So then, when you come together, it is not the Lord’s Supper you eat, 21 for when you are eating, some of you go ahead with your own private suppers. As a result, one person remains hungry and another gets drunk. 22 Don’t you have homes to eat and drink in? Or do you despise the church of God by humiliating those who have nothing? What shall I say to you? Shall I praise you? Certainly not in this matter!

the Lord’s Supper existed even before the arrival of Paul. The Apostle has only to remember his true meaning, in his eyes, not to create it ex nihilo.

Hence, there was a Joshua cult diffused in the Diaspora and ramified in various sectes, but this Joshua was not still connected with the Christ, even less so with a crucified Christ.

Paul was one of the early apostles to connect Joshua/Jesus with the Christ.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

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Giuseppe
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Re: evidence of a PRE-CHRISTIAN Joshua cult in Paul

Post by Giuseppe » Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:55 pm

Why Paul met pre-Christians at Rome:


Romans 1:15
That is why I am so eager to preach the gospel also to you who are in Rome.

The Roman community, who adored Joshua but ignored the Gospel preached by Paul, could only be a pre-christian cult of Joshua. Only so I can explain why the first thing made by Paul in Rome was to preach his Gospel (Joshua is the Christ and he is the crucified Christ).
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

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Giuseppe
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Re: evidence of a PRE-CHRISTIAN Joshua cult in Paul

Post by Giuseppe » Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:59 pm

We Paul met pre-Christians in Ephesus:

Acts 19:1-8

19 While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul took the road through the interior and arrived at Ephesus. There he found some disciples 2 and asked them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?”
They answered, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.”
3 So Paul asked, “Then what baptism did you receive?”
“John’s baptism,” they replied.
4 Paul said, “John’s baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus.” 5 On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied. 7 There were about twelve men in all.
8 Paul entered the synagogue and spoke boldly there for three months, arguing persuasively about the kingdom of God.

Note that that was the original Pentecoste: the knowledge that Joshua is the Christ.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

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arnoldo
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Re: evidence of a PRE-CHRISTIAN Joshua cult in Paul

Post by arnoldo » Wed Apr 01, 2020 3:02 am

Giuseppe wrote:
Tue Mar 31, 2020 10:46 pm
Why Paul met pre-Christians at Corinth:
What is the date for this? :cheers:

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Giuseppe
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Re: evidence of a PRE-CHRISTIAN Joshua cult in Paul

Post by Giuseppe » Wed Apr 01, 2020 6:32 am

Before the 70 CE, on 10 Joshua sects (let's assume there were 10 sects forming the entire Joshua cult diffused in the Diaspora) , only one (that of the Pillars and Paul) preached that Joshua was the Christ and the crucified Christ. The other 10 sects didn't even know that one of them had made the equation, so much they were distant one from the others.

After the 70 CE, the equation Joshua==Christ was held by 5 sects on 10.

Therefore a conflict was expected, between the other Joshua sects who denied the equation, and the increasing number of sects who accepted the equation Joshua==Christ.

Only when it became a conflict (between claimers and deniers of the equation Joshua == Christ), an Earliest Gospel was necessary to claim that Joshua had a life on earth, since a true Christ has to live "in the last times" and Joshua had to be proved as the true Christ.

This is for me the reconstruction that makes more sense in absolute.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

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Re: evidence of a PRE-CHRISTIAN Joshua cult in Paul

Post by Giuseppe » Wed Apr 01, 2020 6:52 am

The previous post explains definitely in my eyes the true reason why it was not Paul the first euhemerizer of Joshua as the Christ lived on earth, despite of the fact that, for Paul, Joshua had to be identified with the Christ (differently from other Joshua sects). In the time of Paul, there was not a so high degree of conflict between claimers and deniers of the equation Jesus==Christ because:
  • The equation preached by Paul (Joshua == Christ) was a too much recent belief to be known, or even attacked, by the adorers of only a Joshua (not still identified with Christ).
  • Being the early Joshua sects still entirely Jewish sects, there was not still recognized a priori the so strong interest connected with the claim or the denial of the equation Joshua == Christ. When it became more and more clear that some Joshua sects were abandoning the Judaism in 2° CE (see the Naassenes), then it became equally more and more clear the first implication related to the acceptance or denial of the equation Joshua== Christ: if you accept it, then you have to adore YHWH as supreme god, while if you reject it, then you have to reject and even hate YHWH as a false god.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

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GakuseiDon
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Re: evidence of a PRE-CHRISTIAN Joshua cult in Paul

Post by GakuseiDon » Wed Apr 01, 2020 2:26 pm

Your theory needs a dragon to spice it up! Everyone loves dragons.

Joshua the magic dragon lived by the sea
And was believed in by pre-Christians in a land called Galilee
Little Saulie Paul, he went and caused a schism
By preaching a Gospel of a crucified Christ, but without baptism


(I do practice social isolation, but in my case it was made compulsory! Best wishes to all in this time, especially to my friend Giuseppe in Italy, whom I like to light-heartedly stir sometimes but without rancour)
It is really important, in life, to concentrate our minds on our enthusiasms, not on our dislikes. -- Roger Pearse

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Giuseppe
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Re: evidence of a PRE-CHRISTIAN Joshua cult in Paul

Post by Giuseppe » Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:31 pm

GakuseiDon wrote:
Wed Apr 01, 2020 2:26 pm
(I do practice social isolation, but in my case it was made compulsory!
what do you mean with "but"? Are you describing me as a misanthrope? I have (had) a social life, too.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

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GakuseiDon
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Re: evidence of a PRE-CHRISTIAN Joshua cult in Paul

Post by GakuseiDon » Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:51 pm

You are wonderful at finding extraordinary significance in a single word, and that in a language which is not your mother tongue. It is brilliance bordering on paranoia, or vice versa. My compliments! :notworthy: :notworthy:
It is really important, in life, to concentrate our minds on our enthusiasms, not on our dislikes. -- Roger Pearse

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Giuseppe
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Re: evidence of a PRE-CHRISTIAN Joshua cult in Paul

Post by Giuseppe » Wed Apr 01, 2020 9:53 pm

:consternation:
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

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