From Hadrian, to Barnabas, to Marcion

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
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Joseph D. L.
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Re: From Hadrian, to Barnabas, to Marcion

Post by Joseph D. L. »

MrMacSon wrote: Tue Feb 18, 2020 1:17 am
Joseph D. L. wrote: Mon Feb 17, 2020 10:39 pm And it was known that Simon bar Kochba was beheaded ...
Well, it's said his head was presented to Emperor Hadrian - he could have been beheaded post mortem. Not that it matters much.
But is there anything to imply he was crucified? There is—circumstantial—evidence to say that Lukuas was.

But as you said, it doesn’t matter much. Giuseppe is following a phantom of his own creation, yet again.
Giuseppe
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Re: From Hadrian, to Barnabas, to Marcion

Post by Giuseppe »

Joseph D. L. wrote: Tue Feb 18, 2020 2:52 am
You are unable to distinguish between a story and the History. In the story Barabbas is an evil Jew loved by evil Jews. In the real History Barabbas is a parody against the Marcionites: you bastard Marcionites, who claim that you adore an alien Son of Father killed by evil Jews, really are adoring an evil Jew adored by evil Jews.
This doesn’t even make sense. So in history Barabbas, now a historic figure to you,
this is a straw-man argument. Barabbas never existed. But the readers of the Gospels, not-initiates, had to believe his historical existence. Barabbas was invented. Just as the Jewish-Moroccan DNA of Hitler was invented.

The difference is that I realize that the Jewish DNA of Hitler is modern fake news, while the Christians didn't realize that Barabbas was fake-news. A parody.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.
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Joseph D. L.
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Re: From Hadrian, to Barnabas, to Marcion

Post by Joseph D. L. »

Giuseppe wrote: Tue Feb 18, 2020 2:58 am You are unable to distinguish between a story and the History. In the story Barabbas is an evil Jew loved by evil Jews. In the real History Barabbas is a parody against the Marcionites: you bastard Marcionites, who claim that you adore an alien Son of Father killed by evil Jews, really are adoring an evil Jew adored by evil Jews.
This doesn’t even make sense. So in history Barabbas, now a historic figure to you,
this is a straw-man argument. Barabbas never existed.
Okay.
In the real History Barabbas is a parody against the Marcionites
Okay.

So it’s history when it needs to be and invented when it needs to be.

Kinda like how Christians believe the Bible is metaphorical when they need it to be, and literal when they need it to be.

You think just like a Christian apologist. Actually you remind me a lot of J. P. Holding. Both of of you grasp at straws and presume your own infallibility, and refuse to acknowledge when you are wrong.
But the readers of the Gospels, not-initiates, had to believe his historical existence. Barabbas was invented. Just as the Jewish-Moroccan DNA of Hitler was invented.
Who was it then that invented Barabbas, and why?

So the people who invented Barabbas knew it was a parody of Marcion? Then how did it get twisted into history when church fathers like Irenaeus and Tertullian were eager to point out falsehoods in the heretics’ writings?

And you still don’t explain it these same writers who invented Barabbas would have Jews calling for his release. That alone disproves you’re smug ass theory.
The difference is that I realize that the Jewish DNA of Hitler is modern fake news, while the Christians didn't realize that Barabbas was fake-news. A parody.
Jump in front of a train man. Seriously. Get fucking lost.
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Joseph D. L.
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Re: From Hadrian, to Barnabas, to Marcion

Post by Joseph D. L. »

Really starting to think that Giuseppe has schizophrenia. It explains his bizarre, Giuseppe-logic, his detachment from reality, and his frequent posting as he’s probably on a disability pension that allows him to stay home all day.
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Joseph D. L.
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Re: From Hadrian, to Barnabas, to Marcion

Post by Joseph D. L. »

Seriously think about this.

Giuseppe argues that it was the “Judiazers” who invented Barabbas.

And who were these ”Judiazers”? According to Giuseppe, the proto-Orthodox, who hated Jews and Marcionites alike (again, according to him.)

But why would proto-Orthodox care about creating a parody of Marcion’s theology, and then have it that the Jews accept the Marcionite parody?

What’s more, if they’re the ones inventing it, why are they the ones that mistake it for history?

It’s why Atwil is full of horse manure. He fails to explain how it goes from being an invention, to being believed by the very people who invented it.

At least with Atwil, and—God forgive me—Wilson have some sense of logical structure. Giuseppe, on the other hand, just makes up one idea after another, and tries to make everything fit together post hoc.
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Re: From Hadrian, to Barnabas, to Marcion

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Joseph D. L. wrote: Tue Feb 18, 2020 3:29 am Seriously think about this.

Giuseppe argues that it was the “Judiazers” who invented Barabbas.

And who were these ”Judiazers”? According to Giuseppe, the proto-Orthodox, who hated Jews and Marcionites alike (again, according to him.)
you are ignorant. RG Price has explained in short lines the meaning of a Gospel written by Jews for Jews: the Jews kill their Christ, therefore YHWH kills the Jews.

You are simply an idiot if this means that the Jewish author "hated" the Jews.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.
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Re: From Hadrian, to Barnabas, to Marcion

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Joseph D.L. is a troll and an idiot. He doesn't address at all the comparison with the parody about the Jewish DNA of Hitler, or the parody about the Pagan idol Baphomet. Even when that kind of parody fits completely the case of Barabbas as anti-marcionite parody.

He is so stupid and idiot that not even realizes that the Barabbas episode was invented very early, in a time when the Catholic compromise couldn't be found so easily between Jewish-Christisns and Gnostics, and the calumnation was the rule.

The Marcionites, the idiot Joseph D.L. says, couldn't follow a rebellious Jew named Barabbas. Sure, also the Nazis couldn't follow a Jew named Adolf Hitler.

That is the nature of parody. That is called parody.

But Joseph D.L. is an idiot literalist who is totally unable to recognize a parody, when a parody is in action.

Joseph D.L. is not even a troll: he is really idiot.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.
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Ben C. Smith
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Re: From Hadrian, to Barnabas, to Marcion

Post by Ben C. Smith »

Giuseppe wrote: Mon Feb 17, 2020 11:57 pmBen seems to ignore all this. I wonder about this his resistance, because it would make better just his case that Mark used (polemically) previous Gospels.
The reason is exquisitely simple. I simply do not care in advance whether Mark used previous texts or traditions or not; the only thing that makes me care about it is that I think I have found evidence of it, much/some of which evidence which I have presented on this forum. If I am wrong about that evidence, I want to know; and I would flip my position in a heartbeat if that were the case. I want my theories about the texts to be strong; therefore, I rid myself of weak hypotheses.
Last edited by Ben C. Smith on Tue Feb 18, 2020 6:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
ΤΙ ΕΣΤΙΝ ΑΛΗΘΕΙΑ
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Joseph D. L.
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Re: From Hadrian, to Barnabas, to Marcion

Post by Joseph D. L. »

Giuseppe wrote: Tue Feb 18, 2020 3:43 am
Joseph D. L. wrote: Tue Feb 18, 2020 3:29 am Seriously think about this.

Giuseppe argues that it was the “Judiazers” who invented Barabbas.

And who were these ”Judiazers”? According to Giuseppe, the proto-Orthodox, who hated Jews and Marcionites alike (again, according to him.)
you are ignorant. RG Price has explained in short lines the meaning of a Gospel written by Jews for Jews: the Jews kill their Christ, therefore YHWH kills the Jews.

You are simply an idiot if this means that the Jewish author "hated" the Jews.
Where is this mysterious Gospel then?

I don't give a good goddamn what you think Price says or doesn't say.

The Gospels as we have them--as we know them--shows the Jews rejecting their Christ, and the Romans crucifying him.

And yet you would have us believe that this is really some ploy against the Marcionites by... who?!? No one.
the Jews kill their Christ, therefore YHWH kills the Jews.
That's not how it works you idiota. The Jews rejecting their Christ is a typical Jewish theme, found in their own scripture where they reject the promises of God, are punished, but are later rewarded when they realize the error of their ways.

That's it. You've simply never read the Old Testament. That's the only reason I can think of for your absolute ignorance. You simply have never read these texts.
Last edited by Joseph D. L. on Tue Feb 18, 2020 7:03 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Joseph D. L.
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Re: From Hadrian, to Barnabas, to Marcion

Post by Joseph D. L. »

Giuseppe wrote: Tue Feb 18, 2020 4:56 am Joseph D.L. is a troll and an idiot. He doesn't address at all the comparison with the parody about the Jewish DNA of Hitler, or the parody about the Pagan idol Baphomet. Even when that kind of parody fits completely the case of Barabbas as anti-marcionite parody.
Oh my fucking God. The comparison is in your own empty head. You refuse to explain why the "Judiazers" have the Jews call out to release Barabbas, when it's supposedly a parody of the Marcionites.

According to you, Marcion =/= Jews.

So vai a scopare tua madre. You're the son of a thousand fathers, all bastards like you.
He is so stupid and idiot that not even realizes that the Barabbas episode was invented very early, in a time when the Catholic compromise couldn't be found so easily between Jewish-Christisns and Gnostics, and the calumnation was the rule.
Then the people whom it was invented for would have known that it wasn't about the Marcionites, but about the Jews following a false messiah who had escaped. Agaian, you fail to explain how it went from a parody of the Marcionites, to being used as a condemnation against the Jews.

The Barabbas episode WASN'T invented early. If anything it was late.

And I don't know who you're talking to here. Everyone on here seems to agree with me that you're mentally handicapped.
The Marcionites, the idiot Joseph D.L. says, couldn't follow a rebellious Jew named Barabbas. Sure, also the Nazis couldn't follow a Jew named Adolf Hitler.
I don't even know what you're talking about. How could they??? They rejected rebellious Jews.

Prove they could have.

You can't.

Also, according to you, the Marcionites were anti-Jewish, so why would they?

Sei un dannato idiota.
But Joseph D.L. is an idiot literalist who is totally unable to recognize a parody, when a parody is in action.
A literalist? Is this along with me being a Christian apologist and a modern Judiazer?

How is the Jews calling for the release of Barabbas a parody of the Marcionites? You haven't proven anything. You've only capitulated and declared it as unassailable.

No, Giuseppe. You haven't proven anything. Haven't offered any sound reason why it is what you say it is, and have failed to convince anyone.

That's not my problem Giuseppe. That's you're problem. And neither I nor no one else has to believe anything you say just because you say, you megalomaniac moron.
Joseph D.L. is not even a troll: he is really idiot.
You mean "he really is an idiot", you illiterate succhiacazzi.
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