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"baramin" - bad grammar in Hebrew

Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:35 pm
by lpetrich
A baramin is a creationist "created kind", all organisms that are descended from some specially-created ancestor.

The word was coined from Hebrew bara ("created", like in Genesis 1:1) and min ("kind", "species").

But that word is bad grammar in Hebrew. Proper Hebrew would be "min baru" with plural "minim baru'im"

I think that "baramin" is a VERY naive translation from English. It uses English word order, adjective-noun, instead of Hebrew word order, noun-adjective, and it uses a past-tense form instead of a passive participle, while in English, most verbs have identical-looking simple past tenses and past/passive participles. The "created" in "created kind" is a passive participle, an adjective derived from a verb with passive-voice meaning.

Re: "baramin" - bad grammar in Hebrew

Posted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 1:43 pm
by nili
On the other hand, there are those who would argue that bara does not mean 'created' in Gn 1:1.

Re: "baramin" - bad grammar in Hebrew

Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 1:03 am
by Ethan
ברא (bara') is an irregular verb, the homologue of φέρε, but in the Doric dialect, φάρα.

Irregularities.
- οἴσω(אשא), ἤνεγκα(נשאתי)

Re: "baramin" - bad grammar in Hebrew

Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:32 am
by nili
Ethan wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 1:03 am
ברא (bara') is an irregular verb, ...
... which is wholly irrelevant.

Re: "baramin" - bad grammar in Hebrew

Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 5:13 am
by lpetrich
I have thought of a plausible Hebrew interpretation for "bara min": "he created a kind".

Re: "baramin" - bad grammar in Hebrew

Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 5:32 am
by lpetrich
nili wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 1:43 pm
On the other hand, there are those who would argue that bara does not mean 'created' in Gn 1:1.
How?

Looking elsewhere in the Bible, it appears in contexts that clearly indicate giving some form to pre-existing material. Strong's Hebrew: 1254. בָּרָא (bara') -- choose So that word alone does not say anything about pre-existing matter vs. nothing.

Re: "baramin" - bad grammar in Hebrew

Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 3:31 am
by nili
lpetrich wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 5:32 am
nili wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 1:43 pm
On the other hand, there are those who would argue that bara does not mean 'created' in Gn 1:1.
How?

Looking elsewhere in the Bible, it appears in contexts that clearly indicate giving some form to pre-existing material. Strong's Hebrew: 1254. בָּרָא (bara') -- choose So that word alone does not say anything about pre-existing matter vs. nothing.
No, it does not, and - in my opinion - it did not in Genesis 1. My point was that Gen. 1:1 is grammatically awkward. The bottom line is that when it comes to BH grammar purity is a pretty worthless standard.

Perhaps I don't understand the point of your thread.

Re: "baramin" - bad grammar in Hebrew

Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 1:28 am
by Ethan
Josephus translates Genesis 1:1, probably the most accurate reading of the verse, 'In the beginning, God anew the heaven and earth', this aligns with Isaiah, every year the heavens and earth is renewed. Genesis 1 is yearly, a cycle in accordance to the Calendar.

Re: "baramin" - bad grammar in Hebrew

Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 5:06 am
by semiopen
Always nice to look at the one part of the bible everyone knows.

‎בְּרֵאשִׁ֖ית בָּרָ֣א אֱלֹהִ֑ים אֵ֥ת הַשָּׁמַ֖יִם וְאֵ֥ת הָאָֽרֶץ׃
(Gen. 1:1 WTT)
When God began to create heaven and earth (Gen. 1:1 TNK)
IN THE beginning God created the heaven and the earth. (Gen. 1:1 JPS)
Personally, it is one of the few verses, I sort of understand. Elohim definitely appears to have baraed the heaven and earth in the beginning. If one baras every day for almost a week, it's a good idea not to drive a car, etc. until one has rested for a day.

Lot of google results on a baramin search. Seems to be some sick Yoshkieologist idea to get Jews to feel comfortable with their bullshit.

Re: "baramin" - bad grammar in Hebrew

Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:07 pm
by nili
semiopen wrote:
Fri Apr 12, 2019 5:06 am
Always nice to look at the one part of the bible everyone knows.

‎בְּרֵאשִׁ֖ית בָּרָ֣א אֱלֹהִ֑ים אֵ֥ת הַשָּׁמַ֖יִם וְאֵ֥ת הָאָֽרֶץ׃
(Gen. 1:1 WTT)
When God began to create heaven and earth (Gen. 1:1 TNK)
IN THE beginning God created the heaven and the earth. (Gen. 1:1 JPS)
Personally, it is one of the few verses, I sort of understand. ...
... save for the fact that you seem to be "sort of" quoting a long outdated (i.e., 1917) JPS translation, which begs the question: Are you being sloppy or disingenuous?