Joseph D. L. wrote: ↑Sat Jun 23, 2018 12:22 pm
The Naassenes and Ophites were JEWS who syncretized with the Sabazios and Attis cults in Phrygia.
Marcion was himself likely a participant of these cults, and Stephan Huller and Markus Vintzent have both made reasonable cases for Marcion being Jewish.
Wish I could exchange my asshole magnet for a chick magnet.
I checked Vintzent's blog -
http://markusvinzent.blogspot.com/search/label/Marcion and didn't notice a discussion about Marcion being Jewish. Same with Huller's -
http://stephanhuller.blogspot.com/search?q=marcion. Not that it matters if they did, what kind of fool would accept your statement without more details?
Sabazios is the horseman and sky father god of the Phrygians and Thracians. In Indo-European languages, such as Phrygian, the -zios element in his name derives from dyeus, the common precursor of Latin deus ('god') and Greek Zeus. Though the Greeks interpreted Phrygian Sabazios[3] as both Zeus and Dionysus,[4] representations of him, even into Roman times, show him always on horseback, as a nomadic horseman god, wielding his characteristic staff of power.
Regarding a Jewish connection -
The first Jews who settled in Rome were expelled in 139 BCE, along with Chaldaean astrologers by Cornelius Hispalus under a law which proscribed the propagation of the "corrupting" cult of "Jupiter Sabazius," according to the epitome of a lost book of Valerius Maximus:
Gnaeus Cornelius Hispalus, praetor peregrinus in the year of the consulate of Marcus Popilius Laenas and Lucius Calpurnius, ordered the astrologers by an edict to leave Rome and Italy within ten days, since by a fallacious interpretation of the stars they perturbed fickle and silly minds, thereby making profit out of their lies. The same praetor compelled the Jews, who attempted to infect the Roman custom with the cult of Jupiter Sabazius, to return to their homes."[20]
By this it is conjectured that the Romans identified the Jewish YHVH Tzevaot ("sa-ba-oth," "of the Hosts") as Jove Sabazius.
This mistaken connection of Sabazios and Sabaos has often been repeated. In a similar vein, Plutarch maintained that the Jews worshipped Dionysus, and that the day of Sabbath was a festival of Sabazius.[21] Plutarch also discusses the identification of the Jewish God with the "Egyptian" Typhon, an identification which he later rejects, however. The monotheistic Hypsistarians worshipped the Most High under this name, which may have been a form of the Jewish God.
Needless to say, your defense of the Naasseans is remarkably weak.
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/naassene.html earlychristianwritings seems to be related to the early writings forum.
It is difficult to read that and think that this sect was Jewish.
I read two short papers by Tuomas Rasimus of the University of Helsinki who specializes in Gnosticism. He does not mention Judaism in discussing either the Naasenes or Ophites.
He gives the following references for the Naasenes -
Lancellotti, M. (2000)
The Naassenes: a gnostic identity among Judaism, Christianity, Classical and ancient Near Eastern traditions
. Münster.Marcovich, M., ed. (1986)
Hippolytus: refutatioomnium haeresium
. Berlin.Rasimus, T. (2009)
Paradise reconsidered in gnostic mythmaking: rethinking Sethianism in light of the Ophite evidence
. Leiden.
For the Ophites he gives -
DeConick, A. D. (2013) “The road for the souls is through the planets: the mysteries of the Ophians mapped.” In A. D. DeConick, G. Shaw, and J. D.
Turner, eds., Practicing Gnosis: ritual, magic,
theurgy and liturgy in Nag Hammadi, Manichaean and other ancient literature. Essays
in honor of Birger A. Pearson: 37–74. Leiden.
Rasimus, T. (2009) Paradise reconsidered in gnostic mythmaking: rethinking Sethianism in light of the Ophite evidence. Leiden.
Rasimus, T. (2013) “The Archangel Michael in Ophite creation mythology.” In L. Jenott and S. Kattan Gribetz, eds., Jewish and Christian
cosmogony in Late Antiquity: 107–25. Tübingen.
Schenke, H.-M. (1981) “The phenomenon and significance of gnostic Sethianism.” In B. Layton, ed., The rediscovery of gnosticism, vol. 2, Sethian
gnosticism: 588–616. Leiden.
Welburn, A. (1981) “Reconstructing the Ophite diagram.”Novum Testamentum23: 261–87. Leiden.
His paper on the Ophites was more interesting to me.
Celsus (see CELSUS, PHILOSOPHER) and ORIGEN (both in C. Cels. 6.22–38) knew and describeda diagram, a map of the universe with ritual
instructions that accompanied anointment, administered either at one’s initiation or deathbed. A central feature of the instruction was a
set of passwords one had to learn and deliver at heavenly gates guarded by seven theriomorphic archons called Yaldabaoth, Yao, Sabaoth,
Adonaios, Astaphaios, Eloaios, and Horaios.These are, in reality, the seven archangels led by Michael (= Yaldabaoth), who has here
become a demonized caricature of YAHWEH. In Ophite mythology, the animal shapes of the archons stand in stark contrast to the
anthropomorphism of the true, androgynous God, after whose image the demonic archons created Adam and Eve.
The seven theriomorphic archons is a really cool term. That reminded me of Abraham Abulafia: Meditations on the Divine Name
https://www.amazon.com/Abraham-Abulafia ... dpSrc=srch
which describes a similar exercise - of course the seven theriomorphic archons have more kosher names.
I have a personal theory that the
Baal_Shem_Tov used this for his famous ascent to heaven. The "passwords" are quite long and complicated and any kind of mistake is fatal.
I think that the idea is to go to sleep and approach the gates in a dream. It's difficult to imagine an adept obtaining this kind of control. In the Castaneda books, Don Juan suggests looking at the back of ones hands when dreaming. If one can do this and continue in a dream state, theoretically one could dream travel to the first gate, etc.
I wrote Dr. Rasimus a note on this, we'll see if he replies.