Stephan Huller's opinion regarding Sanballat the Horonite

Discussion about the Hebrew Bible, Septuagint, pseudepigrapha, Philo, Josephus, Talmud, Dead Sea Scrolls, archaeology, etc.
Post Reply
User avatar
Joseph D. L.
Posts: 1405
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:10 am

Stephan Huller's opinion regarding Sanballat the Horonite

Post by Joseph D. L. »

First, a set up.

For the last year I've been engaged in a discussion with someone who promotes many of Huller's ideas, to the point that he effectively has stopped thinking about other possibilities. It's almost become an idiosyncrasy of his that when I make a post about my ideas, he will always compare and argue it against his/Huller's, despite the fact that 1), my post would imply or indicate a need to bring it up, and 2) he dismisses all of my counter arguments for no reason and proceeds to reaffirm his original argument as if it's a fact. As you can imagine this exchange has devolved into pure frustration for me. In fact trying to get him to answer a straight question is an exercise of patience as he routinely repeats himself and reiterates the same point over and over and over again.

But the biggest issue I take offense to is his claim that Sanballat the Horonite orchestrated the original conspiracy against the Jewish narrative, how, he doesn't explain, and why, he never says. Even when I pin him down and ask how Sanballat pulled off this conspiracy his answer is always evasive.


He does this while parading it as some major discover that not even Huller has found.

I'll also add that he appears prejudiced against Samaritans, mocking their dwindling numbers as retribution for Sanballat's supposed treachery. As I am sympathetic to the plight of Samaritans, I find this behaviour egregious. (For clarification, I support the idea that Samaritans represent original Judaism, and is the authentic tradition).

So, for my own piece of mind, I would like Huller, if he has the time or interest, to disclose his opinion about the rift between Sanballat and Ezra-Nehemiah. Was Sanballat as villainous as this guy believes, or was Sanballat and Ezra fighting a war of attrition, and Ezra won out?
User avatar
DCHindley
Posts: 3412
Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2013 9:53 am
Location: Ohio, USA

Re: Stephan Huller's opinion regarding Sanballat the Horonite

Post by DCHindley »

It's kind of weird that this person (apparently this discussion takes place elsewhere than here) parrots Stephen Huller (SH), who is Jewish by ethnicity (non-observant) but at the same time tending to lean towards Samaritan positions, yet at the same time seems to disagree with SH by being critical of Samaritans in general.

I presume you know that SH is the same as Secret Alias (SA), an alias SH uses to put distance between his occasional profanity-laden rants and his employer, which is in the business of creating "popular" style TV mini-documentaries. SH is an advance man, interviewing the subjects, etc., if that is the correct term for what he does. You don't mean that "SA" is this person with whom you have been corresponding?

The whole issue of when, and why, the Samaritan faith originated and how the this faith became distinct from Roman era Judaism, if full of uncertainties, some of which involve the identity of, or even the very existence of, "Ezra the Scribe." I do not think that the historicity of Nehemiah the Satrap of Yahud (Judea) is questioned by most scholars. I have devoted a lot of effort to comparing and various Hebrew and Greek versions of Chronicles, the book(s) of Ezra-Nehemiah, and 1 and 2 Esdras, and the issue of relating these versions together is full of inconsistencies and problems.

There is a well-known 1968 monograph by James D. Purvis, The Samaritan Pentateuch and the Origin of the Samaritan Sect, that goes into a position that is widely held, in which the time of the origin of their Pentateuch is dated to Hasmonean times, while also discussing several POVs as to Samaritan origins.

Samaritans maintain that their origin is pre-exilic (they are the true representatives of Israelite religion).

Of course(TM) the books of Chronicles-Ezra-Nehemiah have a different story (they are transplanted foreigners who adopted Israelite ways out of superstition, and thus not even really Israelites at all), which traces the "schism" to Persian times and the Samarian satrap Sanballet.

Josephus has a modified story which claims it was in the times of Macedonian king Alexander the Great, but also works a Sanballet into the mix, which would have to have existed long after the Persian governor of the same name.

Purvis suggests that it more than likely occurred in the time of John Hyrcanus, who destroyed the Samaritan temple of that time, when he believes the Samaritan Pentateuch originated distinct from the Judean text.

It is really quite complicated. Where SH stands on these issues, I believe, is close to that of Purvis, but I could be wrong.

DCH
Last edited by DCHindley on Sat Apr 28, 2018 1:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ethan
Posts: 976
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:15 pm
Location: England
Contact:

Re: Stephan Huller's opinion regarding Sanballat the Horonite

Post by Ethan »

Sanballat the Horonite is mentioned in the Elephantine papyri who assisted in rebuilding the Jewish temple at 'Elephantine' and so in reality, the temple that was rebuilt in Ezra-Nehemiah was the one in Elephantine (Judea) and not Canaan, else why do we have so many correspondences between the temple of Elaphantine & Persia and none between the one is Jerusalem.
The Persian army completely routed the Egyptians and occupied the Lower Delta of the Nile. Following Nectanebo fleeing to Ethiopia, all of Egypt submitted to Artaxerxes. The Jews in Egypt were sent either to Babylon or to the south coast of the Caspian Sea, the same location that the Jews of Phoenicia had earlier been sent.

After this victory over the Egyptians, Artaxerxes had the city walls destroyed, started a reign of terror, and set about looting all the temples. Persia gained a significant amount of wealth from this looting.
Ezra 5:14 ( Artaxerxes III is Nebuchadnezzar)
And the vessels also of gold and silver of the house of God, which Nebuchadnezzar took out of the temple that was in Jerusalem, and brought them into the temple of Babylon

2Ch 12:9 (Artaxerxes III is Shishak ) ( Shishak is the Egyptian word for Xerxes )
So Shishak king of Egypt came up against Jerusalem, and took away the treasures of the house of the LORD, and the treasures of the king's house; he took all: he carried away also the shields of gold which Solomon had made.

Artaxerxes in Egyptian is rtḫ šsš * Artekh Shesesh , Artekh/Arta is a prefix equivalent too Ezra- & Zoro- (ZR) that are common throughout
the story of Solomon & Ezra.
https://pharaoh.se/pharaoh/Artaxerxes-I
https://vivliothikiagiasmatos.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/joseph-yahuda-hebrew-is-greek.pdf
Secret Alias
Posts: 18362
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2015 8:47 am

Re: Stephan Huller's opinion regarding Sanballat the Horonite

Post by Secret Alias »

Why ask what I think? What the Samaritans think is what matters - https://books.google.com/books?id=_iMnz ... ra&f=false
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
Secret Alias
Posts: 18362
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2015 8:47 am

Re: Stephan Huller's opinion regarding Sanballat the Horonite

Post by Secret Alias »

And for the record I'd like to meet this person who promotes my ideas so devotedly. Is she a she? Is she attractive? You know I came into this racket trying to get laid. Hasn't happened yet. All I meet are the ugly losers that hang out in this forum. :confusedsmiley:
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
User avatar
Joseph D. L.
Posts: 1405
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:10 am

Re: Stephan Huller's opinion regarding Sanballat the Horonite

Post by Joseph D. L. »

Secret Alias wrote: Sat Apr 28, 2018 10:49 am Why ask what I think? What the Samaritans think is what matters - https://books.google.com/books?id=_iMnz ... ra&f=false
I ask because he seems so confident in your thesis about Agrippa ii, to the point you would think he was the one who thought of it, while simultaneously says that Sanballat was this evil entity trying to hoodwink Jews.
And for the record I'd like to meet this person who promotes my ideas so devotedly. Is she a she? Is she attractive? You know I came into this racket trying to get laid. Hasn't happened yet. All I meet are the ugly losers that hang out in this forum. :confusedsmiley:
I understand your plight. But we're both guys, and I'm as ugly as they come (hence why I am here and not out with a girl).
User avatar
Joseph D. L.
Posts: 1405
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2017 2:10 am

Re: Stephan Huller's opinion regarding Sanballat the Horonite

Post by Joseph D. L. »

DCHindley wrote: Sat Apr 28, 2018 8:42 am It's kind of weird that this person (apparently this discussion takes place elsewhere than here) parrots Stephen Huller (SH), who is Jewish by ethnicity (non-observant) but at the same time tending to lean towards Samaritan positions, yet at the same time seems to disagree with SH by being critical of Samaritans in general.
I have pointed this irony out to him. Not only that, his position seems to be that Christianity pulled the wool over the Samaritans and thus is sympathetic towards Samaritans in this regard, but then goes on to say that Sanballat was this great mischief maker for Jews and that the Samaritans' slow extinction is proof of this (he said this). He has no consistency with himself. (Despite me telling him that the key to survival is adaptation, and that Samaritans not adapting is why it is dying).

Add to this his distinctive style of argumentation, which consists of reiterating the same point over and over again, and you get an idea with I'm dealing with.
Secret Alias
Posts: 18362
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2015 8:47 am

Re: Stephan Huller's opinion regarding Sanballat the Horonite

Post by Secret Alias »

The reason I side with the Samaritans as a basic understanding is simply that the Pentateuch appears to have been written by someone standing on Mount Gerizim. Jerusalem is never mentioned and all the action - the cultic center - is the Samaritan cultic center. It's like you have a treasure map that suddenly 'lines up' with your neighbors backyard. I would assume that Jews would have centered the action in Jerusalem if a Jew had written the Pentateuch.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
Post Reply