Re: The Mishna, etc
Posted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 10:21 am
I mean you just have to think about things. The original story of Israel is that Moses goes up the mountain brings back the Law (= the ten utterances), the Law is from heaven, the Law is authoritative because it comes from god, no sacrifices, not much other than a list of mostly negative utterances.
Let's suppose that this story is older than the Pentateuch. So at some point - I say in the Persian period, by Ezra - the story of the dispensation of the ten utterances is written. The odd thing however is that there are two dispensations now (this can't have been original) and a ton of additional commandments mostly related to sacrifice.
If the Israelite religion antedated the Pentateuch, which it must have, how were all these extra commandments explained? Christianity seems to be an outgrowth of a pre-existent hostility within Judaism/Israelite tradition to these extra commandments. Stephen in Acts is another. You can see this in the Pseudo-Clementines. There seems to be this palpable hostility to 'more than the ten commandments.'
The destruction of the temple in 70 CE seems to have been a catalyst for this movement. I've said many times before that you don't need a temple to have sacrifices. The Samaritans continue to this day. But it would seem that - if I may indulge in some speculation - that ONCE the temple was destroyed, the story of Jesus was retrojected back into the past to make the Jewish War related to sacrifices which it couldn't have been originally.
I only see a reality for Christianity in post 70 CE and it would seem that the rabbis were forced to deal with a highly polished group of proselytes who latched on to a religion of 'only the ten commandments' or perhaps a condensation of the ten into one commandment, it's hard to say. But the hostility of Marcion and others seems to be directed at Moses and his manipulation of the original dispensation to go beyond 'the ten commandments from heaven, the heavenly Torah' to a second Torah whether that be defined as Deuteronomy (which literally means 'second Law') or the host of commandments scattered through the Pentateuch above and beyond the original 10.
Then in due course when Akiba managed to define 'Torah' as the entire Pentateuch 'the second Torah' becomes the oral Law. But how utterly strange that this must have been accompanied by (a) an age where there were no longer sacrifices and (b) utterly bizarrely a tacit understanding that not sacrificing isn't an abrogation of 'doing the Law'!!! What a strange set of circumstances which leads to the foundation of rabbinic Judaism. It would seem reading the text badly as its necessary prerequisite.
Let's suppose that this story is older than the Pentateuch. So at some point - I say in the Persian period, by Ezra - the story of the dispensation of the ten utterances is written. The odd thing however is that there are two dispensations now (this can't have been original) and a ton of additional commandments mostly related to sacrifice.
If the Israelite religion antedated the Pentateuch, which it must have, how were all these extra commandments explained? Christianity seems to be an outgrowth of a pre-existent hostility within Judaism/Israelite tradition to these extra commandments. Stephen in Acts is another. You can see this in the Pseudo-Clementines. There seems to be this palpable hostility to 'more than the ten commandments.'
The destruction of the temple in 70 CE seems to have been a catalyst for this movement. I've said many times before that you don't need a temple to have sacrifices. The Samaritans continue to this day. But it would seem that - if I may indulge in some speculation - that ONCE the temple was destroyed, the story of Jesus was retrojected back into the past to make the Jewish War related to sacrifices which it couldn't have been originally.
I only see a reality for Christianity in post 70 CE and it would seem that the rabbis were forced to deal with a highly polished group of proselytes who latched on to a religion of 'only the ten commandments' or perhaps a condensation of the ten into one commandment, it's hard to say. But the hostility of Marcion and others seems to be directed at Moses and his manipulation of the original dispensation to go beyond 'the ten commandments from heaven, the heavenly Torah' to a second Torah whether that be defined as Deuteronomy (which literally means 'second Law') or the host of commandments scattered through the Pentateuch above and beyond the original 10.
Then in due course when Akiba managed to define 'Torah' as the entire Pentateuch 'the second Torah' becomes the oral Law. But how utterly strange that this must have been accompanied by (a) an age where there were no longer sacrifices and (b) utterly bizarrely a tacit understanding that not sacrificing isn't an abrogation of 'doing the Law'!!! What a strange set of circumstances which leads to the foundation of rabbinic Judaism. It would seem reading the text badly as its necessary prerequisite.