Jacob Neusner RIP

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Ben C. Smith
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Re: Jacob Neusner RIP

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Secret Alias wrote:Well I did read it too quickly partly because you used big block letters and didn't take the argument very seriously. Your sentences were written with large block letters and had very few words or letters per line.
Well, I object to not taking it seriously. I most certainly did. I printed because that is how I write; I never use cursive. I used large letters because I did not think that the size mattered. I think it would be easier to fit things on a line with smaller letters, not harder. I may do another one with smaller letters, just to see if I am right about that.
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Ben C. Smith
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Re: Jacob Neusner RIP

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StephenGoranson
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Re: Jacob Neusner RIP

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Though my handwriting is not remarkable, I know someone whose handwriting is neater (on unruled paper) than the Secret Mark hand.
(This person has been asked to address wedding invitations, just for looks.)
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DCHindley
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Re: Jacob Neusner RIP

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StephenGoranson wrote:Though my handwriting is not remarkable, I know someone whose handwriting is neater (on unruled paper) than the Secret Mark hand.
(This person has been asked to address wedding invitations, just for looks.)
I remember once seeing long ago a TV documentary on ancient manuscripts and this one fellow was pretending to be a scribe in a monestary. he wrote in a very fluid cursive Greek hand, and quite fast I must say. No blobs there, I'd guess. He was not writing especially small letters, though, but he clearly had some impressive calligraphy skills!

I wouldn't be surprised if the writer was not Simonides himself, a self-professed "forger" who honed his craft reproducing exact copies of ancient manuscripts for his clients! Practice makes perfect.

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Secret Alias
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Re: Jacob Neusner RIP

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Still Ben you only did a few lines and on a full size page. The ends of a book are more difficult. Come on. I know you've bought into this nonsense. But the point has been made. Why did they use mastara if it was so easy to pull this stuff off? A friend of mine from the Syrian Orthodox Church ALWAYS uses a mastara when composing texts? It's just always a war with 'common sense' with people in general. The people from that part of the world used mastara. People from this part of the world don't so they can't conceive of another convention. Fine. Working on getting more samples from this guy:

Image

I know because you are always for the 'simplest solution' to things when it echoes convention. But this handwriting looks like the handwriting in Mar Saba 65. I've sent it on to an expert, the expert who discovered the mastara at Athos. Someday you'll stop pimping Carlson's nonsense.

If the Gospel of Jesus Wife shows one side of the coin, the story of how people bought into the Gospel Hoax will tell the other side of the story soon ...
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Secret Alias
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Re: Jacob Neusner RIP

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And the odd thing is that this handwriting can't (as of yet) be connected to any monastery near Mar Saba. It's odd that Smith would 'invent' a handwriting style that so closely resembles an obscure 18th century Patriarch of Constantinople. But of course 'furthermore I think Carlson is right about forgery.'
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
Secret Alias
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Re: Jacob Neusner RIP

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I've gone through EVERY text everywhere this is the one. This is uncannily similar in most if not all respects. How someone in the 20th century could have invented a handwriting style so similar. From what exemplars? The Devil inspired him of course and the Devil can do anything. I know ...
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
Secret Alias
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Re: Jacob Neusner RIP

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Image

The alpha, delta, epsilon and theta are, for instance, quite similar. But the beta and the gamma are not that similar. Other differences are for instance the vertical line on mu, having a turn in the opposite direction.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
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Ben C. Smith
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Re: Jacob Neusner RIP

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Secret Alias wrote:Still Ben you only did a few lines and on a full size page.
The number of lines is irrelevant unless time is a pressing concern. The size of the page is also irrelevant. I could easily do the same on a page the size of a postcard.
The ends of a book are more difficult.
Agreed. But I do not think they are impossible; it may be one reason my lines were straighter, on average, than those of the Mar Saba manuscript. But I am a total amateur with no talent for writing and with no more practice than you see on this thread. With practice, there is simply no way the end of a book would be impossible to get as straight as we see in the manuscript.
But the point has been made. Why did they use mastara if it was so easy to pull this stuff off?
Probably because it is easier with the mastara. That does not mean it is infeasible without it.

Why are some of the lines of the Mar Saba text crooked if the scribe used a mastara?
The people from that part of the world used mastara. People from this part of the world don't so they can't conceive of another convention.
Utter nonsense. The utility of using such a device is instantly comprehensible. The question here is, NOT whether using it is handy or understandable, but rather whether it was used for this manuscript. I say that the lines we find thereupon are achievable without the mastara. If you still disagree, why not try it yourself instead of critiquing my efforts from your armchair?
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Secret Alias
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Re: Jacob Neusner RIP

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I know someone whose handwriting is neater (on unruled paper) than the Secret Mark hand.
(This person has been asked to address wedding invitations, just for looks.)
But wouldn't that imply that Morton Smith would have to possess a unique gift - and not merely ONE unique gift. He was magically chosen by Satan to perpetrate a plot against Christianity and for this mission received a number of 'remarkable gifts' - viz. developing a rare Byzantine script (not just copying a pre-existent hand because of its uniqueness). But also having the rare ability to master writing straight in tight spaces in this remarkable Byzantine handwriting and forming remarkable left and write margins in these tight spaces too all the while emulating Mark's style within the body of Clement's style. This is reasonable hypothesis when compared with the alternative - i.e. that the guy who wrote that document from 1785 for the Patriarch of Constantinople just copied out a scrap of paper he had lying around into the back of a book. Why is the former 'more reasonable' or 'more likely' than the latter?
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
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