The two powers in heaven: Melchizedek, the pastoral archetype of the oral tradition who is wholly spirit because the oral tradition is written on his heart (later called the Holy Spirit) and God, the Lord of the Spirits.
The paper at the link I have provided defines the context, nature and function of each theology.
[snip]
“The fundamental Torah structure is crafted into a loop, with non-sedentary diaspora life established by entering Egypt from Canaan and
sedentary national life established by entering Canaan from Egypt.“
The quote is from The Fundamental Structure and Systematic Theology of the Torah which advanced the following propositions:
The first five books of the Bible describe two establishment structures.
• The diaspora established in Genesis.
• The nation established in Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy.
Associated with each establishment structure is a distinct theology.
• The theology of self-sacrifice is practiced in a diaspora setting.
• The theology of temple sacrifice is practiced in a national setting.
The essay will show that this fundamental structure and systematic theology was utilized by later Biblical authors to create texts appropriate for
periods of “loop reversal” when the sedentary population was forced into diaspora.
[end snip]
From:
https://www.academia.edu/4738424/The_To ... Theologies
published 2013
Two Powers in Heaven
Re: Two Powers in Heaven
Andrei A. Orlov notes in a chapter in the book, Wisdom Poured Out Like Water: Studies on Jewish and Christian Antiquity in Honor of Gabriele Boccaccini, De Gruyter, 2018:
Andrei A. Orlov
23 Two Powers in Heaven… Manifested
Introduction
In recent decades there has been an increased scholarly interest in rabbinic and Hekhalot testimonies pertaining to the so-called two powers in heaven controversy. Scholars often argue about the importance of these rabbinic debates for understanding the origins of early Jewish mysticism or even the roots of early Christology. While previous studies provide many valuable insights about these portentous conceptual developments, they consistently ignore one important aspect found in these accounts, namely, the striking contrast between the theophanic attributes of the first power, represented by God, and the details of the second power’s epiphany, epitomized by Metatron. Yet, it appears that in the aforementioned accounts one can detect a peculiar tension between the two theophanic traditions: one, audial or auricularcentric, applied to the deity, and the other, visionary or ocularcentric, applied to the great angel. Thus, the second power, often represented by Metatron, is depicted with the distinctive attributes of the visionary trend, while God’s presence is portrayed through peculiar aural symbolism, namely, through the conception of the heavenly voice.
The purpose of this chapter is to explore more closely these differences in theophanic descriptions found in the two powers in heaven accounts ...
Ocular and Aural Paradigms of the Divine Presence
In the Hebrew Bible the deity often appears in an anthropomorphic shape. Such anthropomorphic symbolism comes to its most forceful expression in the Israelite priestly ideology, known to us as the Priestly source, wherein God is depicted in “the most tangible corporeal similitudes.” ...
Scholars observe that the priestly understanding of the corporeal representation of the deity finds its clearest expression in the conception of the “Glory of God” [...]. This conception is always expressed in the Priestly tradition in the symbolism grounded in mythological corporeal imagery ...
While containing forceful anthropomorphic ideologies, the Hebrew Bible also attests to polemical narratives contesting the corporeal depictions of the deity and offers a different conception of the divine presence ...
https://www.academia.edu/37789365/_Two_ ... anifested_
Andrei A. Orlov
23 Two Powers in Heaven… Manifested
Introduction
In recent decades there has been an increased scholarly interest in rabbinic and Hekhalot testimonies pertaining to the so-called two powers in heaven controversy. Scholars often argue about the importance of these rabbinic debates for understanding the origins of early Jewish mysticism or even the roots of early Christology. While previous studies provide many valuable insights about these portentous conceptual developments, they consistently ignore one important aspect found in these accounts, namely, the striking contrast between the theophanic attributes of the first power, represented by God, and the details of the second power’s epiphany, epitomized by Metatron. Yet, it appears that in the aforementioned accounts one can detect a peculiar tension between the two theophanic traditions: one, audial or auricularcentric, applied to the deity, and the other, visionary or ocularcentric, applied to the great angel. Thus, the second power, often represented by Metatron, is depicted with the distinctive attributes of the visionary trend, while God’s presence is portrayed through peculiar aural symbolism, namely, through the conception of the heavenly voice.
The purpose of this chapter is to explore more closely these differences in theophanic descriptions found in the two powers in heaven accounts ...
Ocular and Aural Paradigms of the Divine Presence
In the Hebrew Bible the deity often appears in an anthropomorphic shape. Such anthropomorphic symbolism comes to its most forceful expression in the Israelite priestly ideology, known to us as the Priestly source, wherein God is depicted in “the most tangible corporeal similitudes.” ...
Scholars observe that the priestly understanding of the corporeal representation of the deity finds its clearest expression in the conception of the “Glory of God” [...]. This conception is always expressed in the Priestly tradition in the symbolism grounded in mythological corporeal imagery ...
While containing forceful anthropomorphic ideologies, the Hebrew Bible also attests to polemical narratives contesting the corporeal depictions of the deity and offers a different conception of the divine presence ...
https://www.academia.edu/37789365/_Two_ ... anifested_
Re: Two Powers in Heaven
MrMacSDon,
You gotta love Andrei Orlov.
One issue I see, though, is that Hekhalot literature as written texts are rather late (near the end of the Roman hegonomy over the east), and as the footnotes to the translation of 3rd (Hebrew) Enoch in Charlesworth's volumes make clear, there were actually at least two systems of heavenly hierarchy that had been conflated together. Metatron was the one that was chosen - by the editor(s) - to present as the epitome of this second power.
There are heavenly ascents, and terrifying consequences of making any, even the most minor, error in procedure, risking one's life. Assuming these ascents (actually, these mystics always called them descents) did not include actual physical harm, but if a vision might end with 100,000 iron rods being dumped on you like a terrible industrial accident, this might have affected the mental health of the mystic. It seems that some mystics had actually died of fright when the vision turned bad on them. All it took was for the mystic to loose mental note of where s/he was in alternate reality, use the wrong password or sigil to try to pass by a guard angel at the gate of this or that heaven, and bam, your "dead."
The closest thing I can think of is the recent movie Inception, which I think is clearly based on this kind of Jewish throne mysticism. It is a world of alternate reality that was ever as intriguing as Dungeons & Dragons could ever be. The throne mystics were mentally calculating passwords by manipulating biblical texts in their minds to extract phrases to try as passwords that would unlock gates or allow them access, while avoiding using ones that might trigger a booby trap. The process was likely highly stressful. No "oops!" and recovery. There was no room for error at all.
The mystic's goal was only to be able to worship god in all his splendor at the foot of his throne, their voice one of myriads of angels who are constantly singing praises towards an awesome God on an equally awesome throne. Oh, they also could ask angels questions about heavenly things, as long as they were there. The adepts narrate what they are experiencing, and scribes were writing it all down, no matter how bizarre. If the vision seemed to be going bad, the observers had to act quick to bring the sage back to reality, hopefully with his brain unfried.
Even so, such states can be induced by means other than by use of drugs, including self induced trances, as the Jewish mystics appear to have done. This is pretty much agreed upon by most all scholars who study MM. I do not think that the Merkabah mystics were using drugs, only controlled breathing and mental gymnastics, but apparently to similar effect. If Merkur is not correct, then Pseudo Dionysius devotees also achieved such states where the senses blurred together.
Imagine that kind of psychological state being experienced by the Merkabah mystic in the visions. I'm sure it was pretty grand.
DCH
You gotta love Andrei Orlov.
One issue I see, though, is that Hekhalot literature as written texts are rather late (near the end of the Roman hegonomy over the east), and as the footnotes to the translation of 3rd (Hebrew) Enoch in Charlesworth's volumes make clear, there were actually at least two systems of heavenly hierarchy that had been conflated together. Metatron was the one that was chosen - by the editor(s) - to present as the epitome of this second power.
There are heavenly ascents, and terrifying consequences of making any, even the most minor, error in procedure, risking one's life. Assuming these ascents (actually, these mystics always called them descents) did not include actual physical harm, but if a vision might end with 100,000 iron rods being dumped on you like a terrible industrial accident, this might have affected the mental health of the mystic. It seems that some mystics had actually died of fright when the vision turned bad on them. All it took was for the mystic to loose mental note of where s/he was in alternate reality, use the wrong password or sigil to try to pass by a guard angel at the gate of this or that heaven, and bam, your "dead."
The closest thing I can think of is the recent movie Inception, which I think is clearly based on this kind of Jewish throne mysticism. It is a world of alternate reality that was ever as intriguing as Dungeons & Dragons could ever be. The throne mystics were mentally calculating passwords by manipulating biblical texts in their minds to extract phrases to try as passwords that would unlock gates or allow them access, while avoiding using ones that might trigger a booby trap. The process was likely highly stressful. No "oops!" and recovery. There was no room for error at all.
The mystic's goal was only to be able to worship god in all his splendor at the foot of his throne, their voice one of myriads of angels who are constantly singing praises towards an awesome God on an equally awesome throne. Oh, they also could ask angels questions about heavenly things, as long as they were there. The adepts narrate what they are experiencing, and scribes were writing it all down, no matter how bizarre. If the vision seemed to be going bad, the observers had to act quick to bring the sage back to reality, hopefully with his brain unfried.
This was also something that followers of Pseudo Dionysius in the 4th century were said to do, to experience God's "essence." This has been discussed in BC&H before. I think Dan Merkur (sp?), a practicing MD Psychoanalyst, has speculated whether this state among the mystics interested in Ps-Dionysius' works was achieved under influence of a hallucinogen like mushrooms, which they likened to manna (bread from heaven) during the Exodus.[digression]It reminds me of what folks described to me when taking psilocybe mushrooms (FL, USA, happens to be #1 cattle producing US state, which means cow flops, which means mushrooms, which means bored young people making questionable decisions). A couple of friends came by my apartment (about 1982), and announced they were on mushrooms. Not wanting to let them drive that way, I let them crash and we made something to eat.
One of them saw my record collection and asked me to play Cream's "Tales of Brave Ulysses" on the stereo. I guess his older sister, about my age, was also into hard rock. They seemed to like that ... and we played other songs by Jethro Tull and Green Grass & High Tides by The Outlaws, etc., all known for their mind bending guitar solos, over about 6 hours until they were normal again. During this time, I got to play observer as they described a mixture of visual and auditory sensory inputs that were totally garbled, literally seeing sounds and hearing colors, like LSD was said to do. Maybe they didn't see God or anything, but if that is your disposition, well, you are going to see something like God, I suppose. [/digression]
Even so, such states can be induced by means other than by use of drugs, including self induced trances, as the Jewish mystics appear to have done. This is pretty much agreed upon by most all scholars who study MM. I do not think that the Merkabah mystics were using drugs, only controlled breathing and mental gymnastics, but apparently to similar effect. If Merkur is not correct, then Pseudo Dionysius devotees also achieved such states where the senses blurred together.
Imagine that kind of psychological state being experienced by the Merkabah mystic in the visions. I'm sure it was pretty grand.
DCH
MrMacSon wrote: ↑Sat Apr 06, 2024 9:42 pm Andrei A. Orlov notes in a chapter in the book, Wisdom Poured Out Like Water: Studies on Jewish and Christian Antiquity in Honor of Gabriele Boccaccini, De Gruyter, 2018:
Andrei A. Orlov
23 Two Powers in Heaven… Manifested
Introduction
In recent decades there has been an increased scholarly interest in rabbinic and Hekhalot testimonies pertaining to the so-called two powers in heaven controversy. Scholars often argue about the importance of these rabbinic debates for understanding the origins of early Jewish mysticism or even the roots of early Christology. While previous studies provide many valuable insights about these portentous conceptual developments, they consistently ignore one important aspect found in these accounts, namely, the striking contrast between the theophanic attributes of the first power, represented by God, and the details of the second power’s epiphany, epitomized by Metatron. Yet, it appears that in the aforementioned accounts one can detect a peculiar tension between the two theophanic traditions: one, audial or auricularcentric, applied to the deity, and the other, visionary or ocularcentric, applied to the great angel. Thus, the second power, often represented by Metatron, is depicted with the distinctive attributes of the visionary trend, while God’s presence is portrayed through peculiar aural symbolism, namely, through the conception of the heavenly voice.
The purpose of this chapter is to explore more closely these differences in theophanic descriptions found in the two powers in heaven accounts ...
Ocular and Aural Paradigms of the Divine Presence
In the Hebrew Bible the deity often appears in an anthropomorphic shape. Such anthropomorphic symbolism comes to its most forceful expression in the Israelite priestly ideology, known to us as the Priestly source, wherein God is depicted in “the most tangible corporeal similitudes.” ...
Scholars observe that the priestly understanding of the corporeal representation of the deity finds its clearest expression in the conception of the “Glory of God” [...]. This conception is always expressed in the Priestly tradition in the symbolism grounded in mythological corporeal imagery ...
While containing forceful anthropomorphic ideologies, the Hebrew Bible also attests to polemical narratives contesting the corporeal depictions of the deity and offers a different conception of the divine presence ...
https://www.academia.edu/37789365/_Two_ ... anifested_
-
andrewcriddle
- Posts: 2860
- Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 12:36 am
Re: Two Powers in Heaven
This is a quibble about a very interesting post but pseudo-Dionysius dates from the early 6th century or very late 5th century not the 4th. (I'm wondering if you meant the earlier theurgical pagan writers used by pseudo-Dionysius. )DCHindley wrote: ↑Sun Apr 07, 2024 5:59 am ............................................................................
This was also something that followers of Pseudo Dionysius in the 4th century were said to do, to experience God's "essence." This has been discussed in BC&H before. I think Dan Merkur (sp?), a practicing MD Psychoanalyst, has speculated whether this state among the mystics interested in Ps-Dionysius' works was achieved under influence of a hallucinogen like mushrooms, which they likened to manna (bread from heaven) during the Exodus.
Even so, such states can be induced by means other than by use of drugs, including self induced trances, as the Jewish mystics appear to have done. This is pretty much agreed upon by most all scholars who study MM. I do not think that the Merkabah mystics were using drugs, only controlled breathing and mental gymnastics, but apparently to similar effect. If Merkur is not correct, then Pseudo Dionysius devotees also achieved such states where the senses blurred together.
Imagine that kind of psychological state being experienced by the Merkabah mystic in the visions. I'm sure it was pretty grand.
DCH
Andrew Criddle
Re: Two Powers in Heaven
Hello andrew,
Yes, not only are the Ps Dionysian mystics of a later age, but so also the Merkabah books as they stand are probably as late or later, and already showing signs of decadence (so no longer a thriving tradition) at time they were edited into their final form.
I'm only stating that folks haven been finding ways to alter mental states to make ascents, and without drugs, throughout the ages.
I would point to the magic and gnostic ascents that seemed to predominate in the 3rd century AD.
The Enochian book of Watchers from the DSS predate the Christian era by as much as 250 years, and it shows signs of some sort of mysticism associated with walls surrounding the heavenly king's castle, perhaps an early version that later developed into Merkabah mysticism and its various heavens. The castle is made of pure crystal, with a throne surrounded by fire, analogous to the throne mystics.
Does this suggest there were "two gods" speculation in Judaism in the 1st century? Possibly, but I am not even close to convinced. I do not see Philo reflected very strongly, among Judean writers I am ware of, in the first few centuries of the Christian era, but he was of interest to Clement and later Origen, all three based in Alexandria.
Could Judean "Gnostics" have developed their idea that the Judean national god was actually an ignorant poor copy of the true God, without Philo? Possibly, but Philo did not appear to have significant Hebrew or even Aramaic skills and the Sethian Gnostics definitely did. Sethian Gnostics of 2nd century were probably "home grown" right in Roman Judea or Judeo/Parthian Mesopotamia.
DCH
Yes, not only are the Ps Dionysian mystics of a later age, but so also the Merkabah books as they stand are probably as late or later, and already showing signs of decadence (so no longer a thriving tradition) at time they were edited into their final form.
I'm only stating that folks haven been finding ways to alter mental states to make ascents, and without drugs, throughout the ages.
I would point to the magic and gnostic ascents that seemed to predominate in the 3rd century AD.
The Enochian book of Watchers from the DSS predate the Christian era by as much as 250 years, and it shows signs of some sort of mysticism associated with walls surrounding the heavenly king's castle, perhaps an early version that later developed into Merkabah mysticism and its various heavens. The castle is made of pure crystal, with a throne surrounded by fire, analogous to the throne mystics.
Does this suggest there were "two gods" speculation in Judaism in the 1st century? Possibly, but I am not even close to convinced. I do not see Philo reflected very strongly, among Judean writers I am ware of, in the first few centuries of the Christian era, but he was of interest to Clement and later Origen, all three based in Alexandria.
Could Judean "Gnostics" have developed their idea that the Judean national god was actually an ignorant poor copy of the true God, without Philo? Possibly, but Philo did not appear to have significant Hebrew or even Aramaic skills and the Sethian Gnostics definitely did. Sethian Gnostics of 2nd century were probably "home grown" right in Roman Judea or Judeo/Parthian Mesopotamia.
DCH
andrewcriddle wrote: ↑Sun Apr 07, 2024 9:41 amThis is a quibble about a very interesting post but pseudo-Dionysius dates from the early 6th century or very late 5th century not the 4th. (I'm wondering if you meant the earlier theurgical pagan writers used by pseudo-Dionysius. )DCHindley wrote: ↑Sun Apr 07, 2024 5:59 am ............................................................................
This was also something that followers of Pseudo Dionysius in the 4th century were said to do, to experience God's "essence." This has been discussed in BC&H before. I think Dan Merkur (sp?), a practicing MD Psychoanalyst, has speculated whether this state among the mystics interested in Ps-Dionysius' works was achieved under influence of a hallucinogen like mushrooms, which they likened to manna (bread from heaven) during the Exodus.
Even so, such states can be induced by means other than by use of drugs, including self induced trances, as the Jewish mystics appear to have done. This is pretty much agreed upon by most all scholars who study MM. I do not think that the Merkabah mystics were using drugs, only controlled breathing and mental gymnastics, but apparently to similar effect. If Merkur is not correct, then Pseudo Dionysius devotees also achieved such states where the senses blurred together.
Imagine that kind of psychological state being experienced by the Merkabah mystic in the visions. I'm sure it was pretty grand.
DCH
Andrew Criddle
Re: Two Powers in Heaven
Sure, but Peter Schäfer and Orlov both situate the genesis of the concept of 'Two Powers in Heaven' in the pre-Christian era: in the Tanakh & in the so-called inter-testamentary and other pseudepigraphical texts
Schäfer refers to concepts such as
- the Son of Man in the Vision of Daniel
- in Jesus Sirach (Ecclesiasticus)
- the Divinized Human in the Self-Glorification Hymn [from the DSS at Qumran]
- the Son of Man and Son of the Most high in the Daniel Apocryphon [from the DSS at Qumran]
- the Son of Man concept in the so-called Similitudes of the Ethiopic Book of Enoch (which originates from the book of Daniel)
- the Son of Man-Messian in the Fourth Book of Ezra
- the Firstborn in the Prayer of Joseph
- the Logos according to Philo of Alexandria
- the Son of Man in the Midrash
- conceptual changes from the Human Enoch to the lesser God Metatron
- Daniel 7
- the Book of the Similitudes
- the Primary Adam Books
- the Exagoge of Ezekiel the Tragedian
- 2 Enoch
- the Apocalypse of Abraham
- the Ladder of Jacob
MrMacSon wrote: ↑Wed Mar 13, 2024 8:38 pm
2. Two Gods in Heaven: Jewish Concepts of God in Antiquity
by Peter Schäfer (translated by Allison Brown)
"... Peter Schafer demonstrates how the Jews of the pre-Christian Second Temple period had various names for a second heavenly power-such as Son of Man, Son of the Most High, and Firstborn before All Creation. He traces the development of the concept from the Son of Man vision in the biblical book of Daniel to the Qumran literature, the Ethiopic book of Enoch, and the Jewish philosopher Philo of Alexandria." https://www.amazon.com/Two-Gods-Heaven- ... 1322&psc=1
3. The Glory of the Invisible God: Two Powers in Heaven Traditions and Early Christology by Professor Andrei Orlov
"Orlov begins by looking at imagery of the "two powers" in early Jewish literature, in particular the book of Daniel, and in pseudepigraphical writings. He then traces the concept through rabbinic literature and applies this directly to understanding of Christological debates. Orlov finally carries out a close examination of the "two powers" traditions in Christian literature, in particular accounts of the Transfiguration and the Baptism of Jesus. Including a comprehensive bibliography listing texts and translations, and secondary literature, this volume is a key resource in researching the development of Christology." https://www.amazon.com/Glory-Invisible- ... 209X&psc=1
MrMacSon wrote: ↑Sat Apr 06, 2024 9:42 pm
Andrei A. Orlov notes in a chapter in the book, Wisdom Poured Out Like Water: Studies on Jewish and Christian Antiquity in Honor of Gabriele Boccaccini, De Gruyter, 2018:
23 Two Powers in Heaven… Manifested
Introduction
Scholars observe that the priestly understanding of the corporeal representation of the deity finds its clearest expression in the conception of the “Glory of God” [...]. This conception is always expressed in the Priestly tradition in the symbolism grounded in mythological corporeal imagery ...
https://www.academia.edu/37789365/_Two_ ... anifested_
Orlov starts Part Two of The Glory of the Invisible God, titled 'Two Powers in Heaven Traditions in Early Christian Accounts,' by highlighting the many references to the “Glory - δόξα - of God” in the Pauline epistles
.
Re: Two Powers in Heaven
MrMacSon wrote:
For Abraham to recognize the authority and authenticity of a Canaanite priest-king is startling and has no parallel in biblical literature.
Rich suggests:
Could it be that the Melchizedek archetype in the Torah is not Canaanite in origin? I currently hold that it's Vedic in origin and refers to the memorization of an oral tradition in the pastoral context on the steppe (embodied in the Vedic seers), since the Torah consists of the establishment of the first diaspora in Genesis (the dismemberment of the Purusha into social classes of Brahmin (Aaron) and Rajanya (Joshua)) which accompanies the establishment of the nation of Israel in Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy.
Each establishment structure of the Torah has its own theology: the mastery of an oral tradition, embodied in the compound name Melchi-Zedek, is the theology of pastoral Genesis versus the national toolkit of Israel which consists of the temple, the priesthood and the written law.
Mastering the oral tradition puts the temple in your heart.
“I will place my law within them and write it upon their hearts.”
“Writing the law on one’s heart” is the process of memorizing and actualizing an oral tradition (making learned behaviors intuitive)."
MrMacSon wrote:
The author of the NT Letter to the Hebrews raises Melchizedek’s profile to that of a pre-incarnate Christ-like-figure: Melchizedek is eternal, having no “father or mother”, and “resembling the Son of God he continues as a priest forever” (Heb. 7:3). Abraham’s tithe to Melchizedek is said to confirm his greatness (Heb. 7:4).
Rich suggests that the remarks re: Melchizedek's lack of a lineage and his implied immortality are due to his being wholly spirit representing the embodied word of God. Psalm 110:2-4.
"The Lord has sworn, and he will not repent:
'You are a priest FOREVER, according to the order of Melchizedek.'”
When Jesus answers the high priest, he is describing his own membership in the Order of Melchizedek through his mastery of the oral tradition.
“Again, the high priest questioned him, ‘Are you the Messiah, the Son of the Blessed One?’ Jesus said, ‘I am; and you will see the SON OF MAN seated at the right hand of God and coming with the clouds of heaven.’ Then the high priest tore his robes and said, ‘Need we call further witnesses? You have heard the blasphemy. What is your opinion?’ Their judgment was unanimous: that he was guilty and should be put to death.”
Mark 14:62-64
Paul describes Melchizedek's role and function (the "Return from the Fall) in the Letter to the Romans 2:14-15:
"The Gentiles do not have the Law; but whenever they do by instinct what the Law commands, they are their own law, even though they do not
have the Law. Their conduct shows that what the Law commands is written in their hearts."
MrMacSon asked:
Does any of it relate to the view there was a 'Two Powers in Heaven' theology in the first century ad/ce?
Secret Alias suggested:
by Secret Alias » Thu Mar 14, 2024 10:39 am
No not messianic Judaism. Judaism Judaism.
Rich suggests:
Melchizedek is the pastoral archetype of the Judaism of Genesis. The prophets and priests, like Jesus, who championed the oral tradition were being disenfranchised by emerging rabbinical Judaism (Thanksgiving Hymn #12) causing the conflict you are reading about in the first century ad/c texts.
=======
In the "Return from the Fall" everything that was dis-membered in Genesis is re-membered. Aaron (priest) and Joshua (warrior) are re-membered into Melchizedek. Jesus is entered into the order of Melchizedek by writing the law on his heart (which combines his PRIEST with his WARRIOR to become a divine king).
Logion 106 of the Gospel of Thomas speaks of the re-membering:
"When you MAKE THE TWO ONE, you will become the SONS OF MAN, and when you say, 'Mountain move away, it will move away."
In logion 114 of the Gospel of Thomas, man and woman are re-membered:
Simon Peter said to them,"Let Mary leave us, for women are not worthy of life. Jesus said, "I myself shall lead her in order to make her male so that she too may become a living spirit resembling you males. For every woman who will make herself male will enter the kingdom of heaven."
Note: The Gospel of Thomas is all about the Return from the Fall.
Let me know if that helps with your confusion. You can stay in the first century and ignore Genesis and the Vedic seers who were the first to internalize an oral tradition or you can recognize Melchizedek's beginning in pastoral Genesis (where the oral tradition belongs).
The texts you're reading from the first century record the war being fought over the deprecation of Melchizedek, the priests, and the prophets (See Stephen M. Donnelly, The Divine Rites and Rejection of the Priest-King: Melchizedek on the Margins of Early Jewish and Christian Interpretation, A thesis, The Hebrew University of Jerusalem 2014, Dept. of Comparative Religion, posted at www.academia.edu) amid the secularization of emerging rabbinical Judaism (Daniel Boyarin), a war in which Jesus demonstrated the self-sacrifice Melchizedek represents.
Melchizedek is elohim, a manifestation of the logos/word of God.
The Christology is already fully developed in Genesis because its precursor: Re-membered Man of the Rig Veda's Hymn of Man, was already fully developed before it. We celebrate the self-sacrifice and become members of the Order of Melchizedek when we receive the Eucharist with our whole heart and our whole mind.
The chant became flesh through the sacrifice. Rig Veda
The Word became flesh and dwelt among us. The Gospel According to John
For Abraham to recognize the authority and authenticity of a Canaanite priest-king is startling and has no parallel in biblical literature.
Rich suggests:
Could it be that the Melchizedek archetype in the Torah is not Canaanite in origin? I currently hold that it's Vedic in origin and refers to the memorization of an oral tradition in the pastoral context on the steppe (embodied in the Vedic seers), since the Torah consists of the establishment of the first diaspora in Genesis (the dismemberment of the Purusha into social classes of Brahmin (Aaron) and Rajanya (Joshua)) which accompanies the establishment of the nation of Israel in Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy.
Each establishment structure of the Torah has its own theology: the mastery of an oral tradition, embodied in the compound name Melchi-Zedek, is the theology of pastoral Genesis versus the national toolkit of Israel which consists of the temple, the priesthood and the written law.
Mastering the oral tradition puts the temple in your heart.
“I will place my law within them and write it upon their hearts.”
“Writing the law on one’s heart” is the process of memorizing and actualizing an oral tradition (making learned behaviors intuitive)."
MrMacSon wrote:
The author of the NT Letter to the Hebrews raises Melchizedek’s profile to that of a pre-incarnate Christ-like-figure: Melchizedek is eternal, having no “father or mother”, and “resembling the Son of God he continues as a priest forever” (Heb. 7:3). Abraham’s tithe to Melchizedek is said to confirm his greatness (Heb. 7:4).
Rich suggests that the remarks re: Melchizedek's lack of a lineage and his implied immortality are due to his being wholly spirit representing the embodied word of God. Psalm 110:2-4.
"The Lord has sworn, and he will not repent:
'You are a priest FOREVER, according to the order of Melchizedek.'”
When Jesus answers the high priest, he is describing his own membership in the Order of Melchizedek through his mastery of the oral tradition.
“Again, the high priest questioned him, ‘Are you the Messiah, the Son of the Blessed One?’ Jesus said, ‘I am; and you will see the SON OF MAN seated at the right hand of God and coming with the clouds of heaven.’ Then the high priest tore his robes and said, ‘Need we call further witnesses? You have heard the blasphemy. What is your opinion?’ Their judgment was unanimous: that he was guilty and should be put to death.”
Mark 14:62-64
Paul describes Melchizedek's role and function (the "Return from the Fall) in the Letter to the Romans 2:14-15:
"The Gentiles do not have the Law; but whenever they do by instinct what the Law commands, they are their own law, even though they do not
have the Law. Their conduct shows that what the Law commands is written in their hearts."
MrMacSon asked:
Does any of it relate to the view there was a 'Two Powers in Heaven' theology in the first century ad/ce?
Secret Alias suggested:
by Secret Alias » Thu Mar 14, 2024 10:39 am
No not messianic Judaism. Judaism Judaism.
Rich suggests:
Melchizedek is the pastoral archetype of the Judaism of Genesis. The prophets and priests, like Jesus, who championed the oral tradition were being disenfranchised by emerging rabbinical Judaism (Thanksgiving Hymn #12) causing the conflict you are reading about in the first century ad/c texts.
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In the "Return from the Fall" everything that was dis-membered in Genesis is re-membered. Aaron (priest) and Joshua (warrior) are re-membered into Melchizedek. Jesus is entered into the order of Melchizedek by writing the law on his heart (which combines his PRIEST with his WARRIOR to become a divine king).
Logion 106 of the Gospel of Thomas speaks of the re-membering:
"When you MAKE THE TWO ONE, you will become the SONS OF MAN, and when you say, 'Mountain move away, it will move away."
In logion 114 of the Gospel of Thomas, man and woman are re-membered:
Simon Peter said to them,"Let Mary leave us, for women are not worthy of life. Jesus said, "I myself shall lead her in order to make her male so that she too may become a living spirit resembling you males. For every woman who will make herself male will enter the kingdom of heaven."
Note: The Gospel of Thomas is all about the Return from the Fall.
Let me know if that helps with your confusion. You can stay in the first century and ignore Genesis and the Vedic seers who were the first to internalize an oral tradition or you can recognize Melchizedek's beginning in pastoral Genesis (where the oral tradition belongs).
The texts you're reading from the first century record the war being fought over the deprecation of Melchizedek, the priests, and the prophets (See Stephen M. Donnelly, The Divine Rites and Rejection of the Priest-King: Melchizedek on the Margins of Early Jewish and Christian Interpretation, A thesis, The Hebrew University of Jerusalem 2014, Dept. of Comparative Religion, posted at www.academia.edu) amid the secularization of emerging rabbinical Judaism (Daniel Boyarin), a war in which Jesus demonstrated the self-sacrifice Melchizedek represents.
Melchizedek is elohim, a manifestation of the logos/word of God.
The Christology is already fully developed in Genesis because its precursor: Re-membered Man of the Rig Veda's Hymn of Man, was already fully developed before it. We celebrate the self-sacrifice and become members of the Order of Melchizedek when we receive the Eucharist with our whole heart and our whole mind.
The chant became flesh through the sacrifice. Rig Veda
The Word became flesh and dwelt among us. The Gospel According to John