Mustard Seed

Discussion about the Hebrew Bible, Septuagint, pseudepigrapha, Philo, Josephus, Talmud, Dead Sea Scrolls, archaeology, etc.
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lpetrich
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Re: Mustard Seed

Post by lpetrich » Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:14 pm

The conjunction is prefixed in Phoenician and suffixed in Latin -- big difference.

Let's count from one to ten.S ource: The Numbers List at zompist.com

Latin: ūnus duo trēs quattuor quinque sex septem octō novem decem
Greek: heīs dúō treīs téttares pénte héx heptá oktṓ ennéa déka
English: one two three four five six seven eight nine ten
Russian: odín dva tri četÿre pyat’ šest’ sem’ vósem’ dévyat’ désyat’
Hindi: ek do tīn cār pã̄c chai (che) sāt āṭh nau das
Hebrew: ’aḥat štayim šâlôš ’arba‘ ḥâmêš šêš šeba‘ šᵉmôneh têša‘ ‘eser
Phoenician: ’-ḥ-d š-n-m š-l-š ’-r-b ḥ-m-š š-š š-b-‘ š-m-n t-š-‘ ‘-š-r
Arabic: wāḥid iθnān θalāθah ’arba‘ah χamsah sittah sab‘ah θamāniyyah tis‘ah ‘ašarah
Aramaic: ḥaḏ tərên təlāṯā ʾarbəʿâ ḥamšâ šittâ šiḇʿâ təmānyâ tišʿâ ʿaśrâ
Akkadian: ištēn šena šalaš erbe h`amiš šiššu sebe samāne tiše ešer

Only six and seven look similar across this list. But It's very evident that Hebrew, Phoenician, Arabic, Aramic, and Akkadian have a lot in common, and that what they have in common is different from what Latin, Greek, English, Russian, and Hindi have in common.

Ethan
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Re: Mustard Seed

Post by Ethan » Fri Jan 11, 2019 8:52 pm

The word "Four" underwent metathesis.
בעאר < ארבע > πίσυρες > πέτταρες > τέσσαρες ( fēower : werfēo : ארבע)

one from ten
εν-ἄπο-δέκα > εν-ἄπο-α > εν-νε-α > ennéa
εις-δέκα > ες-κα > têša

two from ten
δύο-ἄπο-δέκα > δύο-δέκα > έκα-δύο > ὀκ-τώ
δύο-ἄπο-δέκα > δ-ἄπο-έ > δ-מנ-έ > שמנה
https://vivliothikiagiasmatos.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/joseph-yahuda-hebrew-is-greek.pdf
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lpetrich
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Re: Mustard Seed

Post by lpetrich » Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:16 pm

Pure goropism. Such absurdly contrived etymologies are necessary because Indo-European words for numbers do not resemble the corresponding Semitic words very much.

Ethan
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Re: Mustard Seed

Post by Ethan » Wed Jan 16, 2019 3:43 pm

Three
𐤔𐤋‬𐤔 (Hebrew)
𐤕𐤋𐤕 (Aramaic)
ث ل ث (Arabic)
ΤΡΙΣ (Greek)

𐤕‬𐤓‬𐤐𐤉𐤌 - ΤΡΙΠΟΝ "Tripod" (Judges 17:5, Gen 31:19)
𐤐𐤏𐤌 - ΡΟΥΣ "Feet" (Songs 7:9)
https://vivliothikiagiasmatos.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/joseph-yahuda-hebrew-is-greek.pdf
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Ethan
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Re: Mustard Seed

Post by Ethan » Wed Jan 16, 2019 4:30 pm

The additional Ι in ΤΡΙΣ can be accounted for.
- Genesis 1:13 שלישי - τρίτοι "Third"

The Hebrew word for five, חמש also means 'Battle-array' and cognates with μάχη "Battle"
compare with the Etruscan "maχ" (Five) also roots משק(μάχη) and דמשק (σύμμαχος) in Genesis 15:2.

"The God of the Battle array" (1 Samuel 17:45)
"Armed Men" (Judges 7:11) (חמשים/πεντήκοντα)

πεντηκοστύς - body of fifty, as a division of the Spartan army

The Book of Maccabees was right all alone.

Book of Maccabees I 12:20-23
It has been discovered in records regarding the Spartans and Jews that they are brothers, and of the race of Abraham
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lpetrich
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Re: Mustard Seed

Post by lpetrich » Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:13 am

Ethan wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 3:43 pm
Three
𐤔𐤋‬𐤔 (Hebrew)
𐤕𐤋𐤕 (Aramaic)
ث ل ث (Arabic)
ΤΡΙΣ (Greek)
Phonetic transcriptions omitted. They are: Hebrew shalosh, Aramaic talaata, Arabic thalaatha, Greek tris. That makes it very obvious that Hebrew, Aramaic, and Arabic are much more like each other than any of them is to Greek. The Greek one looks much more like English "three", Latin tres, Russian tri, and Sanskrit trayas than like any of those. Thus being consistent with the identified affiliations as Semitic and Indo-European in mainstream linguistics.

Ethan
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Re: Mustard Seed

Post by Ethan » Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:22 am

They are no vowels pointers in the Dead Sea Scrolls or on any Phoenician inscription and you also ignored the difference between Aramaic & Hebrew.

𐤔𐤋𐤉‬‬𐤔𐤉‬ (Hebrew)
𐤕𐤋𐤉‬‬𐤕𐤉‬ (Phoenician)
ΤΡΙΤΟΙ (Greek)
TERTII (Latin)
THIRD (English)

The Latin word as an accent between the initial T and the R

[Accusative + article]
𐤀𐤕‬ 𐤔𐤋‬‬𐤔𐤕
את־שלשת
τοὺς τρεῖς
Tres (Latin)

[Dative + movable suffix]
שלשה עדים = τρισὶν μάρτυσιν (Deu 17:6)
שלשה ראשים = τρισὶν ἀρχαῖς (1 Samuel 13:7)
לשלשתם = τοῖς τρισὶν (Ezekiel 41:1)

[δε = ה, inflicted dative]
ארצה = ἔρασδε
שלשה = τρί+δε (Latin - Tribu) (ה > δε > Bu)
https://vivliothikiagiasmatos.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/joseph-yahuda-hebrew-is-greek.pdf
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Ethan
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Re: Mustard Seed

Post by Ethan » Thu Jan 17, 2019 6:24 am

In the original Hebrew scriptures they are no verse numbers, for example the transition between verses is wrong in the KJV
and errors like that effects the understanding of Hebrew language and poetry.

(1:1 > 1:2)
ואת הארץ והארץ [MSS]
καὶ τὴν γῆν ἡ δὲ γῆ [LXX]
et terram terra autem [Vulgar] (autem terra)
and the Earth and the Earth [KJV]

וה > αὖτε > autem "however"
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/mor ... i/#lexicon

(transition)
ואת הארץ והארץ
and the earth, however earth was without form...
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Ben C. Smith
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Re: Mustard Seed

Post by Ben C. Smith » Thu Jan 17, 2019 8:40 am

Genesis 1, KJV 1611: https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/16 ... -Chapter-1.

If there is a versification problem between verse 1 and verse 2, I am not seeing it. And the Hebrew transition, which is translated in the KJV as "and," is simply that vav at the beginning of verse 2. After that comes the article, and then the noun.
ΤΙ ΕΣΤΙΝ ΑΛΕΘΕΙΑ

Ethan
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Re: Mustard Seed

Post by Ethan » Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:30 am

There is a transitioning problem between the verses in KJV that does not appear in the Vulgar or Septuagint
and since הארץ as the article, it doesn't need repeating. τὴν γῆν αὖτε γῆ.

The bilingual authors Jewish scribes of the Septuagint understood Hebrew grammar much better then the KJV Scribes.
https://vivliothikiagiasmatos.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/joseph-yahuda-hebrew-is-greek.pdf
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