Was OT originally in Greek?

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Ethan
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Re: Was OT originally in Greek?

Post by Ethan » Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:35 pm

Ciudad : חדש , κτίσις , κτίζω , Cadiz "City"
Rey : Rex - αρχ - (מלך > לך > רך)
Mule : מול
Burro : פרא "Wild Ass"
Toro : תור "Bull"
circulo: גלגל "Circle"
https://archive.org/details/Hebrew.is.Greek

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lpetrich
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Re: Was OT originally in Greek?

Post by lpetrich » Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:21 am

Ethan wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:59 pm
Why is it so easy to find Hebrew-Spanish cognates?
Ethan, with your Goropian methods, one can show that any language is close to any other language. All it requires is some imagination.

Let's take the definite articles and compare the Arabic and Spanish ones.

The Arabic one, al, is uninflected. However the l sometimes assimilated with the following sound. In Arabic grammar, letters for sounds that cause assimilation are called "Sun letters" and letters for sounds that do not are called "Moon letters".
The Sun: ash shams
The Moon: al qamar

I think that the names come from the Sun being much brighter than the Moon.

The Spanish definite article is, however, inflected for gender and number: el, la, los, las, though it also has some phonetic effects. Before a singular feminine word beginning with accented a, one uses el instead of la, though one uses las for its plural:
el águila -- the eagle
las águilas -- the eagles

águila < Latin aquila, with the plural derived from the accusative plural aquilas instead of the nominative plural aquilae. Portuguese and French also use accusative plurals, while Italian uses nominative plurals, doing -o / -i and -a / -e (from -ae) instead of -o / -os and -a / -as like Spanish.

By the way, the present-day English word for this bird is derived from Old French, and is also from Latin aquila. In present-day French, it is aigle.

semiopen
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Re: Was OT originally in Greek?

Post by semiopen » Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:13 am

Ethan wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:01 pm
I always find interesting verses.

Deuteronomy 29:3 "The great temptations"
That was a rare complement on my part, but I also pointed out that it's difficult not to find interesting Jewish Bible verses, so the various Laws_of_thermodynamics are still intact.

That is, randomly selected verses would arguably be equally interesting.

The two JPS versions go -
the great trials which thine eyes saw, the signs and those great wonders; (Deut. 29:3 JPS)
the wondrous feats that you saw with your own eyes, those prodigious signs and marvels. (Deut. 29:2 TNK)
4531. maccah - http://biblehub.com/hebrew/4531.htm

I don't get the double Cs (instead of an S) but that's probably just lack of transliteration expertise on my part. KJV seems to like "temptation" and Stong's gives that as the default meaning, but I don't see a verse where it actually means that.

This appears in the Pentateuch only once outside of Deuteronomy -
The place was named Massah and Meribah, because the Israelites quarreled and because they tried the LORD, saying, "Is the LORD present among us or not?" (Exod. 17:7 TNK)

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lpetrich
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Re: Was OT originally in Greek?

Post by lpetrich » Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:44 am

I found another Phoenician word in Spanish: the name of the city Cadiz. Its name is derived from Agadir or A Gadir, meaning something like "the walls".

Various Greek sources used Ta Gadeira (neuter plural) or sometimes Ta Gêdeira or Hê Gadeira. The Roman name for the city was Gâdês, and the Roman colony there was Augusta Urbs Iulia Gaditana (August City of Julia of Gades). To medieval Arabs, it became Qâdis, and in Spanish, Cádiz.

Ethan
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Re: Was OT originally in Greek?

Post by Ethan » Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:41 am

semiopen wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 6:13 am
Ethan wrote:
Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:01 pm
I always find interesting verses.

Deuteronomy 29:3 "The great temptations"
That was a rare complement on my part, but I also pointed out that it's difficult not to find interesting Jewish Bible verses, so the various Laws_of_thermodynamics are still intact.

That is, randomly selected verses would arguably be equally interesting.

The two JPS versions go -
the great trials which thine eyes saw, the signs and those great wonders; (Deut. 29:3 JPS)
the wondrous feats that you saw with your own eyes, those prodigious signs and marvels. (Deut. 29:2 TNK)
4531. maccah - http://biblehub.com/hebrew/4531.htm

I don't get the double Cs (instead of an S) but that's probably just lack of transliteration expertise on my part. KJV seems to like "temptation" and Stong's gives that as the default meaning, but I don't see a verse where it actually means that.

This appears in the Pentateuch only once outside of Deuteronomy -
The place was named Massah and Meribah, because the Israelites quarreled and because they tried the LORD, saying, "Is the LORD present among us or not?" (Exod. 17:7 TNK)
מסה is also written נסה , which means the initial letter is a prefix and it's root
would then be סות (Cuwth) "to incite, allure, instigate, entice" .

1 Chronicles 21:1 - Satan provoked (סת) David

Therefore it's Greek cognate is σείω, in the above verse, the Greek word
is ἐπέσεισεν, the underlined is a prefix, that's equivalent to the
Hebrew , M/N that prefixes מסה & נסה,

ἐπέσεισεν > σεισεν > σσν > שטן. ( Hebrew commonly ignores Greek prefixes, thus are dropped)
* σεισεν - double S

This explains Satan's primary role as a 'tempter'.

σείω "Shake, Blackmail, disturb"
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/σείω
https://archive.org/details/Hebrew.is.Greek

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lpetrich
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Re: Was OT originally in Greek?

Post by lpetrich » Fri Jun 15, 2018 5:23 am

I'll track down the names of Spanish and Portuguese cities and other places

Madrid - medieval Arabic: place with lots of water?
Bilbao - ?
Barcelona - ancient Iberian Barkeno
Pamplona - Roman: Pompelo (founded by Roman general Pompey)
La Coruña - ?
Valencia - Roman: Valentia (strong ones: some Roman soldiers)
Alicante - Greek Akra Leuka (White Cliff)? through Latin and Arabic
Murcia - Roman: Murtea (myrtle)? Murtia (Murtius town)? Murtae (mulberry)?
Granada - medieval Arabic: possibly "hill of strangers"
Malaga - Phoenician Malaka
Gibraltar- Medieval Arabic Jebel Tariq (Tariq's Mountain), Roman Mons Calpe, the latter part possibly being Phoenician
Seville - Phoenician Spal
Cadiz - Phoenician Gadar
Merida - Roman Emerita Augusta (Augustus's veterans)
Salamanca - ?
Lisbon - some Celtic or Phoenician name?

Catalonia - medieval: Goth land?
Castile - medieval: lots of castles
Aragon - medieval Basque: good upper valley?
León - Roman: Latin legio ("legion", "army")
Andalusia - medieval Arabic: the Vandals, a Germanic tribe?
Navarra - Basque: multicolor? valley people?
Cantabria - ?
Galicia - Roman: a Celtic tribe
Extremadura - ?
Portugal - Roman: Latin Portus Cale, port of the Celtic goddess Cala or Cailleach

I found a few names with Phoenician origin, amidst many names with other origins: Malaga, Seville, Cadiz

Ethan
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Re: Was OT originally in Greek?

Post by Ethan » Fri Jun 15, 2018 5:56 am

Madrid : םטר, פטר
Barcelona : ברק , φλόξ , βόστρυχος, ברק+ἅλων "vineyard of Barca"
Pompelo : בבל , παμπολυς , παμπολλου
Murtae : מורה , μορέα "mulberry-tree"
Malaga : מלח , ἁλυκός , ἅμπελος "Vineyard"
Gibraltar : Ἡράκλειαι στῆλαι , מלכקרת צאלים "Pillars of Hercules"
Catalonia : גת "Winepress" + ἅλων "plantation, vineyard "
Galicia : חבל , κυβερνῆταί , γαυλός " round-built Phoenician merchant vessel, milk pail'
Portugal : קרת חבל "Port of Gaul"
https://archive.org/details/Hebrew.is.Greek

Ethan
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Re: Was OT originally in Greek?

Post by Ethan » Fri Jun 15, 2018 6:21 am

Hispania : חדשקני׃ "New Phoenicia"
> שקני "Spain
https://archive.org/details/Hebrew.is.Greek

Ethan
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Re: Was OT originally in Greek?

Post by Ethan » Fri Jun 15, 2018 7:14 am

Spain
Image
Greek - κτίζω φοίνικος
https://archive.org/details/Hebrew.is.Greek

Ethan
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Re: Was OT originally in Greek?

Post by Ethan » Sat Jun 16, 2018 8:19 am

The Punic and Spanish words for measure are identical.

MSURA "Measure"
- Medir "to size"
- Metro "Meter"
https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/le ... ongs=H4884

MDD "to measure"
- Medida
https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/le ... ongs=H4058


The root word is ID "Hand" , as a tool for measuring.

ID > IND > Hand * n before d
MID > Mund, Manus, Mano * initial M, Lac/Milk, Ares/Mars

PIE etymology states, that the word 'hand' as a uncertain origin and yet, there it is.

When Jews come across the word מְשׂוּרָה "mesura" in the Torah, do they find it odd
that it's exactly as it is in English.
https://archive.org/details/Hebrew.is.Greek

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