Essenes, Pharisees, Sadducees, 4th Ph, Therapeutae

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John2
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Re: Essenes, Pharisees, Sadducees, 4th Ph, Therapeutae

Post by John2 » Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:04 am

I wrote:
I don't think the line between the Pharisees and Essenes was ... what's the word I'm looking for ... solid?
Menachem the Essene is a good example of this. As his Wikipedia page says:
Menahem the Essene[1] (Hebrew: מנחם‎, Menahem) was a Jewish Tanna sage living during the era of the Zugot (lit. "pairs"). As such, he was "paired" with Hillel the Elder and served as Av Beit Din. The Mishnah, Tractate "Hagigah" 16b, states that he "went forth [out]", and as a result of that he was replaced by Shammai, who became from that point on the "Pair" mate of Hillel the Elder.

The Babylonian Talmud cites a dispute among the sages over where Menahem "went forth [out]" to. Abaye argues that "He went forth [out] into evil courses [culture]" (Hagigah, 16b), while Rava argues "He went forth [out] to the King's [God's] service" (Hagigah, 16b). The Gemara cites a quotation from one of the Baraitas supporting Rava's opinion: "Thus it is also taught: Menahem went forth [out] to the King's [God's] service, and there went forth [out] with him eighty pairs of disciples dressed in silk [regally]" (Hagigah, 16b).

The Jerusalem Talmud cites an additional opinion, that Menahem agreed to be appointed to a ministration position in order to revoke Governmental predestinations against Torah studying (Yer. Hagigah, 2:2).

The "Menahem" recorded in the Mishnah is thought to be the same as the one recounted in Josephus' (Antiquities of the Jews, b. 15, Ch. 10:5), in which a story is told about a 'Menahem' of the Essenes' sect. According to Josephus, when Menahem saw young Herod the Great going to school he clapped him on the back and addressed him as king, announcing to him that he would reign successfully,[1] despite Herod not being in the line of the royal dynasty. When Herod became king, he asked Menahem how long his reign would be. Initially, Menahem didn't reply, and Herod urged him "Would my reign last ten years?". Menahem replied that Herod would reign at least 30 years, but did not specify the exact number. Herod was pleased with Menahem's answer and dismissed him with a clasp of the hand and thenceforth bestowed special honors upon the Essenes.[1]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menahem_the_Essene
Josephus says something similar about the Pharisees Pollio and Sameas (who are arguably Hillel and Shammai) in Ant. 14.9.4 and 15.1.1:
Nor did Sameas mistake in any part of this prediction; for when Herod had received the kingdom, he slew all the members of this Sanhedrim, and Hyrcanus himself also, excepting Sameas, for he had a great honor for him on account of his righteousness, and because, when the city was afterward besieged by Herod and Sosius, he persuaded the people to admit Herod into it; and told them that for their sins they would not be able to escape his hands.
And since Herod had now the government of all Judea put into his hands, he promoted such of the private men in the city as had been of his party, but never left off avenging and punishing every day those that had chosen to be of the party of his enemies. But Pollio the Pharisee, and Sameas, a disciple of his, were honored by him above all the rest; for when Jerusalem was besieged, they advised the citizens to receive Herod, for which advice they were well requited. But this Pollio, at the time when Herod was once upon his trial of life and death, foretold, in way of reproach, to Hyrcanus and the other judges, how this Herod, whom they suffered now to escape, would afterward inflict punishment on them all; which had its completion in time, while God fulfilled the words he had spoken.
So the Pharisees and Essenes had an arguable common origin in the Hasideans and some were later able to share a common political ground (whether pro-Herodian or pro-war), and Josephus says both groups had a similar view of immortality.

War 2.8.11:
For their [the Essenes'] doctrine is this: That bodies are corruptible, and that the matter they are made of is not permanent; but that the souls are immortal, and continue for ever; and that they come out of the most subtle air, and are united to their bodies as to prisons, into which they are drawn by a certain natural enticement; but that when they are set free from the bonds of the flesh, they then, as released from a long bondage, rejoice and mount upward

War 2.8.14:
They [the Pharisees] say that all souls are incorruptible, but that the souls of good men only are removed into other bodies, - but that the souls of bad men are subject to eternal punishment.
Ant. 18.1.3:
They [the Pharisees] also believe that souls have an immortal rigor in them, and that under the earth there will be rewards or punishments, according as they have lived virtuously or viciously in this life; and the latter are to be detained in an everlasting prison, but that the former shall have power to revive and live again.
Ant. 18.1.5:
They [the Essenes] teach the immortality of souls, and esteem that the rewards of righteousness are to be earnestly striven for.
And since Josephus says that one of the founders of the Fourth Philosophy was a Pharisee (Ant. 18.1.1) and that, aside from their militancy, Fourth Philosophers "agree in all other things with the Pharisaic notions" (Ant. 18.1.6), it doesn't surprise me, given my view that the DSS are writings that were created by the other sects and older writings they brought them when they joined the Fourth Philosophy, that, as Davila discusses:
... a great deal of technical terminology [is] shared between the Hekhalot texts [of Rabbinic Judaism] and the Qumran literature.


https://books.google.com/books?id=4UaaU ... ls&f=false
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StephenGoranson
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Re: Essenes, Pharisees, Sadducees, 4th Ph, Therapeutae

Post by StephenGoranson » Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:23 am

The revolt general John from Essa (Gerasa) is similarly identified as another general from east of the Jordan, in Peraea. May not be an "Essene" group member, as such might have been an unlikely pick for a general.
In considering Epiphanius, maybe consider also his Jewish (not Samaritan) listing of torah-observant Ossenes. (Cf. Samaritan folk-etymology keepers of torah, and Ossenes observers of torah.)
Maybe consider more than one possible meaning of Pharisees, according to Albert Baumgarten, JBL 1983. Separatists and specifiers.
Judah the Essene may be earlier than X the Pharisee or Y the Sadducee?
Some familiar with rabbinic literature (but not including Joseph Baumgarten) may retroject (assume earlier) Sadducees and Pharisees as if assumed older than Essenes.
Essenes may have been described by Posidonius and Strabo (JJS 1994), sources for Josephus and Philo. Marcus Agrippa, source for Pliny.
Sadducees in Josephus and NT somewhat differ from some later uses of the name. (Note different uses of Nazarenes over time and among different language speakers.)
Philo, as I mentioned here earlier, may report disapproval of some Hasmonean rulers who are not named as Sadducee- and Pharisee-influenced, but sound as if those types.

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John T
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Re: Essenes, Pharisees, Sadducees, 4th Ph, Therapeutae

Post by John T » Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:01 pm

StephenGoranson wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:23 am
The revolt general John from Essa (Gerasa) is similarly identified as another general from east of the Jordan, in Peraea. May not be an "Essene" group member, as such might have been an unlikely pick for a general....
Actually, I think being an Essene qualified him as an excellent choice.

As an Essene, he most likely could read and write which was a rare commodity back then and would make him a valuable asset in strategic planning and communication with the other military districts.

Also, as an Essene he would be a huge morale booster for the masses that believed the war was going to be the epic battle of good vs. evil with an army of angles coming to the aid of the Jews.

To write him off as an unlikely pick for general is to write off the importance/standing of the Essene sect that even Josephus wrote he had high regard for.

Sincerely,

John T
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John2
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Re: Essenes, Pharisees, Sadducees, 4th Ph, Therapeutae

Post by John2 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:09 pm

I haven't thought about John the Essene before. I've picked up somewhere along the line the "Essene might mean something else" idea, but I've never looked into it, and it doesn't look like there is much about him on Google Books (at least under the search terms I used to avoid finding books about John the Baptist and the Essenes), but Golb and Feldman appear to be in the "Essene" means "of the Essene sect" camp (not to say that I'm trying to find "pro-Essene sect" camp people or that I am necessarily one), as does Mason, who has an interesting article called "What Josephus Says about the Essenes in his Judean War" (excerpted here):
2.567 )Essai~oj. John [NB: ge/noj used of Niger Perai5thj in previous sentence] commander of a region N&W of Judaea during the revolt ...

Our first conclusion, then, is that Josephus's variation between )Essai~oj and )Esshno/j conforms with his usual style. He places the two most common Greek possessive endings on the essa- root. Such variation of names is entirely compatible with his demonstrable tendencies and does not by itself suggest sources.

Indeed, second, the synopsis above shows that any temptation to attribute these names to discrete sources is ill-advised. It is not only the three "school passages," which have often been attributed to Josephus's sources, that speak of )Esshnoi/. Josephus chooses the same form in passages that are undeniably his: in the editorial comments of Ant. 13.298 (referring back to his War) and in Life 10 (also referring back to the War), as also in his reference to the "Gate of the )Esshnoi/" in Jerusalem (War 5.145). Josephus himself thus uses both forms. As we shall see, he seems entirely conscious of the variation.

Third, although there is no correlation between either form of the name and a source, there is a correlation between each term and grammatical number. All thirteen undisputed occurrences of )Esshno/j are in the plural, though some weaker manuscript evidence also supports )Esshno/j at Ant. 13.311. Of the six occurrences of )Essai~oj, conversely, five are in the singular and refer to named individuals. Josephus prefers to write )Essai~oj of an individual but )Esshnoi/ of the group. Why?

We have a major clue, fourth, in Ant. 15.371-378, the only passage in which Josephus uses )Essai~oj in the plural. We need to pay careful attention to his language there, because he seems to explain what he is doing. After describing how Herod excused the Pharisees from taking an oath of loyalty, he continues:

Also excused from this obligation were those called among us )Essai~oi (oi( par' h(mi=n )Essai=oi kalou/menoi). Now this is a ge/noj that adheres to a way of life laid down among the Greeks by Pythagoras. Although, then, I shall speak about these men more clearly elsewhere, it is fitting to discuss the reason why Herod honoured the )Esshnoi/ thus.... (Ant. 15.371-72). [So also )Esshnoi/ in the balance of the passage: 15.373, 378.]

I submit that the sense of this passage is fairly clear. Josephus has already mentioned the )Esshnoi/ a couple of times in the Antiquities (13.171-73, 298). Now he chooses to note that the group members are actually called )Essai~oi among Judeans, then immediately returns to the established )Esshnoi/ for the remainder of the passage. If Judeans normally call them )Essai~oi, but he uses )Esshnoi/ for his Greek and Roman readers, we may assume that he knew the n-form to be more familiar to his readers.

As it happens, we have confirmation of this understanding in the literature outside Josephus. Philo, a Ioudaios, consistently calls the group )Essai~oi (Free 75-91; Apol. 1-18). The Roman writers Pliny (N.H. 5.73) and Dio of/ Prusa (apud Synesius Dio 3.2), by contrast, use the n-form Esseni or )Esshnoi/. The simple conclusion is that Josephus, with typical sensitivity to his readers, adapted his language to suit them: while noting the Greek spelling that Jews preferred, he nevertheless used the familiar plural for his readers. Why, then, did he revert to )Essai~oj for individuals? We can only surmise that, although he willingly capitulated to the familiar plural, when he came to describe individuals who were not otherwise known, there was nothing to be lost in using the more authentic-sounding )Essai~oj. There was no particular reason to call each of these men an )Esshno/j, which had no established euphony for his readers.

Although Josephus discusses this linguistic principle only in Ant. 15, it is easy to imagine that he unconsciously followed it when he switched from the singular )Essai~oj in War 2.113 to the plural )Esshnoi/ in War 2.119. It is certainly easier to imagine this than to suppose that he was following two different sources within Ant. 15.371-78--where he also speaks about his plans to discuss the Essenes more fully in the future (cf. Ant. 18.18-22)--and two different sources in War 2.113-19.

http://orion.mscc.huji.ac.il/orion/prog ... 00-1.shtml
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John2
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Re: Essenes, Pharisees, Sadducees, 4th Ph, Therapeutae

Post by John2 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:37 pm

However, now I see that Joseph says in Jesus, Q, and the Dead Sea Scrolls: A Judaic Approach to Q (like Goranson points out above):
Josephus does name "John the Essene" as a leader in the revolt. Yet this hardly justifies characterizing the Essenes as having "participated" in the revolt. Steve Mason points out that this reference to "John the Essene" ... may be an ethnikon designating John as someone from Essa. Josephus mentions a place called Essa in the Transjordan (A.J. 13.393) ... Yet even if this "John" was an Essene, he may have left the movement to join the revolt. The singular reference is anomalous, as if the mention of one Essene were an exception.

https://books.google.com/books?id=eskHk ... us&f=false
He also gives some good reasons for thinking the Essenes did not (otherwise?) join the revolt, such as Josephus reporting "that the Essenes take an oath never to commit violence and to obey the rulers who have their power conferred on them by God" in War 2.139-140 and that "Philo denies that they were violent at all" in Every Good Man is Free 78.

Hm. I didn't get that impression about Mason in his article (but I could only see the first part of it).
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John2
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Re: Essenes, Pharisees, Sadducees, 4th Ph, Therapeutae

Post by John2 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:51 pm

War 2.139-140:
And before he is allowed to touch their common food, he is obliged to take tremendous oaths, that, in the first place, he will exercise piety towards God, and then that he will observe justice towards men, and that he will do no harm to any one, either of his own accord, or by the command of others; that he will always hate the wicked, and be assistant to the righteous; that he will ever show fidelity to all men, and especially to those in authority, because no one obtains the government without God's assistance.
Every Good Man is Free 78:
Among those men you will find no makers of arrows, or javelins, or swords, or helmets, or breastplates, or shields; no makers of arms or of military engines; no one, in short, attending to any employment whatever connected with war, or even to any of those occupations even in peace which are easily perverted to wicked purposes.
Ant. 13.393:
But Alexander marched again to the city Dios, and took it; and then made an expedition against Essa, where was the best part of Zeno’s treasures, and there he encompassed the place with three walls; and when he had taken the city by fighting, he marched to Golan and Seleucia.
Hm, I'm starting to lean towards the "Essa" idea now, or that perhaps John left the Essenes to join the revolt, as Joseph supposes. Curious subject, in any event.
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John2
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Re: Essenes, Pharisees, Sadducees, 4th Ph, Therapeutae

Post by John2 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:13 pm

But then, as John T pointed out, there is Hippolytus (Ref. 9.21):
The Essenes have, however, in the lapse of time, undergone divisions, and they do not preserve their system of training after a similar manner, inasmuch as they have been split up into four parties. For some of them discipline themselves above the requisite rules of the order, so that even they would not handle a current coin of the country, saying that they ought not either to carry, or behold, or fashion an image: wherefore no one of those goes into a city, lest (by so doing) he should enter through a gate at which statues are erected, regarding it a violation of law to pass beneath images. But the adherents of another party, if they happen to hear any one maintaining a discussion concerning God and His laws— supposing such to be an uncircumcised person, they will closely watch him and when they meet a person of this description in any place alone, they will threaten to slay him if he refuses to undergo the rite of circumcision. Now, if the latter does not wish to comply with this request, an Essene spares not, but even slaughters. And it is from this occurrence that they have received their appellation, being denominated (by some) Zelotae, but by others Sicarii. And the adherents of another party call no one Lord except the Deity, even though one should put them to the torture, or even kill them. But there are others of a later period, who have to such an extent declined from the discipline (of the order), that, as far as those are concerned who continue in the primitive customs, they would not even touch these. And if they happen to come in contact with them, they immediately resort to ablution, as if they had touched one belonging to an alien tribe. But here also there are very many of them of so great longevity, as even to live longer than a hundred years. They assert, therefore, that a cause of this arises from their extreme devotion to religion, and their condemnation of all excess in regard of what is served up (as food), and from their being temperate and incapable of anger. And so it is that they despise death, rejoicing when they can finish their course with a good conscience. If, however, any one would even put to the torture persons of this description, in order to induce any among them either to speak evil of the law, or eat what is offered in sacrifice to an idol, he will not effect his purpose; for one of this party submits to death and endures torment rather than violate his conscience.

http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/050109.htm
It sounds to me like he (or his source) could be confusing the Fourth Philosophy and the Essenes (though if memory serves Josephus does say something similar about them with respect to enduring torture).
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Re: Essenes, Pharisees, Sadducees, 4th Ph, Therapeutae

Post by John2 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:20 pm

War 2.8.10 on the Essenes:
Now after the time of their preparatory trial is over, they are parted into four classes; and so far are the juniors inferior to the seniors, that if the seniors should be touched by the juniors, they must wash themselves, as if they had intermixed themselves with the company of a foreigner. They are long-lived also, insomuch that many of them live above a hundred years, by means of the simplicity of their diet; nay, as I think, by means of the regular course of life they observe also. They contemn the miseries of life, and are above pain, by the generosity of their mind. And as for death, if it will be for their glory, they esteem it better than living always; and indeed our war with the Romans gave abundant evidence what great souls they had in their trials, wherein, although they were tortured and distorted, burnt and torn to pieces, and went through all kinds of instruments of torment, that they might be forced either to blaspheme their legislator, or to eat what was forbidden them, yet could they not be made to do either of them, no, nor once to flatter their tormentors, or to shed a tear; but they smiled in their very pains, and laughed those to scorn who inflicted the torments upon them, and resigned up their souls with great alacrity, as expecting to receive them again.


Ant. 18.1.6 on the Fourth Philosophy:
They also do not value dying any kinds of death, nor indeed do they heed the deaths of their relations and friends, nor can any such fear make them call any man lord. And since this immovable resolution of theirs is well known to a great many, I shall speak no further about that matter; nor am I afraid that any thing I have said of them should be disbelieved, but rather fear, that what I have said is beneath the resolution they show when they undergo pain.
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John2
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Re: Essenes, Pharisees, Sadducees, 4th Ph, Therapeutae

Post by John2 » Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:00 pm

I'm looking into the "Hippolytus was confused" angle regarding the Essenes and the Fourth Philosophy (which is how it looks to me), and Taylor, for an example, says:
In Hippolytus, these four levels [of Essenes in Josephus] turn into four distinct fractured parts, all of which appear to be understood as indicating followers of Judas the Galilean. Thus Zealots and Sicarii are considered by Hippolytus to be types of Essenes (Haer. 9.26), a stunning mistake that is hard to attribute to any first-century Judean source but rather to a later blunder, when the differences between Judean groups were not so well understood. The insertion here simply furthers Hippolytus' goal of indicating the great fragmentation of Judaism ...

The variants could also indicate Hippolytus' or his predecessor's editorial hand in shaping Josephus in a particular way. While keeping to the same structure as Josephus for his topics, Hippolytus often uses different vocabulary and Greek syntax ... interwoven with exact renderings ... He may do this because in fact he does not claim to offer a quote of a piece of text from Josephus; it is just that it happens to be close to what Josephus wrote. Hippolytus seems much more a plagiarist than a citer of Josephus; he never claims to be exactly quoting him or using him as his source.

https://books.google.com/books?id=C3dYC ... es&f=false
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Re: Essenes, Pharisees, Sadducees, 4th Ph, Therapeutae

Post by DCHindley » Sun Jan 14, 2018 7:55 am

Right,

When Josephus speaks of Essenes being divided between 4 classes after probation, I think he was probably referring to functions within the community, but he does not elaborate. Hippolytus does seem to think this 4 way division refers to a fragmentation of the Essene movement, but neither Philo nor Josephus mention any such fragmentation. Philo may be a bit early for this anyways, but Josephus suggests that the factions in the later conflicts (just before the rebellion breaks out of 66 CE) stemmed from the 4th philosophy of 6 CE, which was an extension of the Pharisee party.

DCH

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