Peter Kirby wrote: ↑Thu Apr 22, 2021 12:26 am
MrMacSon wrote: ↑Wed Apr 21, 2021 11:36 pm
Origen might also be in the same boat. There are some who queries whether an Origen was split into two characters or if one of his supposed teachers, a certain Ammonius [Saccas], had been (or both, or neither). With one of the split characters being an embellished Christianised version (see
Origen the Pagan). And of course Origen was also accused of heresy (which may just be a reflection of still evolving Christian doctrine & theology -
Who has argued for the suspicions regarding Origen that you have mentioned?
1.
Ilaria Ramelli, Origen the Christian Middle/Neoplatonist: New Arguments for a Possible Identification,
Journal of Early Christian History Vol. 1,
Issue 1, 2011:
pp.98-130.
Abstract
On the basis of a close analysis of the sources and of new arguments I support the identification of Origen the Christian philosopher-theologian with Origen the Platonist. My thesis is that it is perfectly possible—even if not necessary—to refer all available sources on Origen the Neoplatonist to Origen the Christian, and to
hypothesise one and the same author, Origen the Christian Platonist: more specifically, a Christian philosopher between Middle and Neoplatonism. This identification is made more probable by Eusebius' attestation that Origen the Christian was celebrated as a great philosopher even by pagans. This is hopefully an important contribution to research on Origen, Patristic philosophy, and Middle and Neoplatonism.
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10. ... 1.11877233
2. Mark J Edwards, One Origen or Two? The
Status Quaestionis,
Symbolae Osloenses (Norwegian Journal of Greek and Latin Studies) 89
(2015): 81–103
Abstract
It has generally been assumed that there were two Origens in the early third century, both of whom were taught by Ammonius Saccas, the Alexandrian teacher of Plotinus. In recent years, it has become more common to maintain that there was only one Origen. Hermann Dörrie's theory that there were two Origens, each taught by a different Ammonius, has enjoyed little favour, and some have denied the existence of the peripatetic Ammonius, proposed as a possible tutor for the Christian Origen. The first part of this article shows that the existence of two Ammonii is accepted by all scholars who are familiar with the evidence of Philostratus,
Lives of the Sophists 2.27. The second points out that the identification of the two Origens raises chronological difficulties which are not always recognized in modern treatments of this question. The rest of the paper, responding to recent studies by Tobias Böhm and Ilaria Ramelli, argues that
the teachings ascribed to “Origen” by later Neoplatonists are not sufficiently convergent with those of the Christian Origen to justify the conclusion that there was only one man of this name.
3. Ilaria L.E. Ramelli
Origen's Allegoresis of Plato's and Scripture's Myths, 2016, in
Religious Competition in the Greco-Roman World, edited by Nathaniel P. DesRosiers, Lily C. Vuong, 2016: p.85ff.
Porphyry's account of Origen the Neoplatonist account of Homer corresponds to Origin the Christian's attitude, which again suggest they're the same person. In his extent Greek works Origen refers to Homer, mentioning him more than thirty times, never in his biblical commentaries or homilies, but only in Against Celsius, where his interlocutor is a “pagan” Middle Platonist. This is consistent with the division of sources* with respect to Origen’s Christian and philosophical works, the former cited by Christians, the latter by Neoplatonists. The author, however, was the same.
* (I would consider the works have indeed been divided to create two characters
and 'the Christian Origen' might have been embellished with works by others)
4. Ilaria L.E. Ramelli, Origen and the Platonic Tradition,
Religions 2017, 8(2): p.21
Abstract
This study situates Origen of Alexandria within the Platonic tradition, presenting Origen as a Christian philosopher who taught and studied philosophy, of which theology was part and parcel. More specifically, Origen can be described as a Christian Platonist. He criticized “false philosophies” as well as “heresies,” but not the philosophy of Plato. Against the background of recent scholarly debates,
the thorny issue of the possible identity between Origen the Christian Platonist and Origen the Neoplatonist is partially addressed (although it requires a much more extensive discussion); it is also discussed in the light of Origen’s formation at Ammonius’s school and the reception of his works and ideas in “pagan” Platonism. As a consequence, and against scholarly perspectives that tend to see Christianity as anti-Platonism, the final section of this paper asks the question of what is imperial and late antique Platonism and, on the basis of rich evidence ,suggests that this was not only “pagan” institutional Platonism
Full text online:
https://www.mdpi.com/2077-1444/8/2/21/htm (a pdf version is also available)
Perhaps
5. Elizabeth DePalma Digeser, “The Usefulness of Borderlands Concepts in Ancient History: The Case of Origen as Monster,” in
Globalizing Borderland Studies in Europe and North America. Edited by Michael North and John Lee. Lincoln: University of Nebraska, 2016, pp. 15–32.
6. Also, in a very small way, three previous posts by me
- viewtopic.php?p=95701#p95701
- viewtopic.php?p=99837#p99837
- viewtopic.php?p=95744#p95744