The Sons of Thunder

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MrMacSon
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The Sons of Thunder

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Mark 1

15 Now as he walked by the sea of Galilee, he saw Simon and Andrew his brother casting a net into the sea: for they were fishers.

17 And Jesus said unto them, Come ye after me, and I will make you to become fishers of men.

18 And straightway they forsook their nets, and followed him.


19 And when he had gone a little farther thence, he saw James the son of Zebedee / Ζεβεδαῖος, and John his brother, who also were in the ship mending their nets.

20 And straightway he called them: and they left their father Zebedee in the ship with the hired servants, and went after him.

21 And they went into Capernaum; and straightway on the sabbath day he entered into the synagogue, and taught.

(also Matthew 4:21-2)


Mark 3

13 Jesus went up on a mountainside and called to him those he wanted, and they came to him.

14 He appointed twelve [designating them apostles] that they might be with him and that he might send them out to preach

15 and to have authority to drive out demons.

16 These are the twelve he appointed:

......Simon (to whom he gave the name Peter),

..17 James son of Zebedee / Ζεβεδαῖος and his brother John (to them he gave the [sur]name Boanērgés, which means “sons of thunder”),

..18 Andrew, Philip, Bartholomew, Matthew, Thomas, James son of Alphaeus, Thaddaeus, Simon the Zealot

..19 and Judas Iscariot, who betrayed him.

(also Matt 10:2; though without reference to Boanērgés)


.
Ζεβεδαῖος is probably a transliteration of the Hebrew name Zəḇaḏyâ according to Spiros Zodhiates (The Complete Wordstudy Dictionary), or the truncated version Zabdî (זַבְדִּי), says BDB Theological Dictionary, and so means "Yahweh (or the Lord) has bestowed".[5] Other popular interpretations of the name are: "abundant" (Hitchcock's Bible Names Dictionary) or "my gift" (from Zabdi, Smith's Bible Dictionary).[6]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zebedee#Etymology


5 The name Zebedee: Summary

Meaning
  • Gift Of Yah, Yah Has Given
Etymology
  • From (1) the verb זבד (zabad), to give, and (2) יה (yah), the shortened version of the name of the Lord.
Related names
• Via זבד (zabad): Ammizabad, Elzabad, Jehozabad, Jozabad, Zabad, Zabbai, Zabbud, Zabdi, Zabdiel, Zabud, Zebadiah,a Zebidah
• Via יה (yah): See the 'browse by form' menu for a long list of yah-names.

https://www.abarim-publications.com/Mea ... bedee.html


a The name Zebadiah in the [Hebrew] Bible
The name Zebadiah is among the most popular in the Bible. There are up to nine men listed with that name, not counting the Greek version Zebedee or any of the truncated forms listed above.

The Zebadiahs of the Bible are:
  • A son of Beriah of Benjamin (1 Chronicles 8:15).
  • A son of Elpaal of Benjamin (1 Chronicles 8:17).
  • One of two sons of Jeroham of Gedor and brother of Joelah. Both men joined David at Ziklag (1 Chronicles 12:1-7).
  • A gatekeeper and the third son of Meshelemiah, son of Kore of Asaph (1 Chronicles 26:2).
  • A military sub-commander and son of Asahel, the brother of Joab (1 Chronicles 27:7).
  • A Levite teacher in service of king Jehoshaphat of Judah (2 Chronicles 17:8).
  • A son of Ishmael of Judah (2 Chronicles 19:11).
  • A son of Michael who joined Ezra in the return from exile (Ezra 8:8).
  • A son of Immer who pledged to divorce his foreign wife (Ezra 10:20).
Etymology of the name Zebadiah
  • The name Zebadiah consists of two elements; the final part comes from יה (Yah) = יהו (Yahu) = יו (Yu), which in turn are abbreviated forms of the Tetragrammaton; the name of the Lord: YHWH.
https://www.abarim-publications.com/Mea ... adiah.html




Justin Martyr, Dialogue with Trypho CVI / 106

"The remainder of the Psalm makes it manifest that He knew His Father would grant to Him all things which He asked, and would raise Him from the dead; and that He urged all who fear God to praise Him because He had compassion on all races of believing men, through the mystery of Him who was crucified; and that He stood in the midst of His brethren the apostles (who repented of their flight from Him when He was crucified, after He rose from the dead, and after they were persuaded by Himself that, before His passion He had mentioned to them that He must suffer these things, and that they were announced beforehand by the prophets), and when living with them sang praises to God, as is made evident in the memoirs of the apostles. The words are the following: 'I will declare Thy name to my brethren; in the midst of the Church will I praise Thee. Ye that fear the Lord, praise Him; all ye, the seed of Jacob, glorify Him. Let all the seed of Israel fear Him.' And when it is said that He changed the name of one of the apostles to Peter; and when it is written in the memoirs of Him that this so happened, as well as that He changed the [family or sur-] names of other two brothers, the sons of Zebedee, to Boanerges, which means sons of thunder; this was an announcement of the fact that it was He by whom Jacob was called Israel,b and Oshea called Jesus (Joshua), under whose name the people who survived of those that came from Egypt were conducted into the land promised to the patriarchs. And that He should arise like a star from the seed of Abraham, Moses showed before hand when he thus said, 'A star shall arise from Jacob, and a leader from Israel', and another Scripture says, 'Behold a man; Ανατολη (the Rising/East) is His name.' Accordingly, when a star rose in heaven at the time of His birth, as is recorded in the memoirs of His apostles, the Magi from Arabia, recognising the sign by this, came and worshipped Him.

  • b Jacob (Hebrew, Yaʿaqov) also called Israel (Hebrew Yisraʾel) was The Patriarch who was the grandson of Abraham, the son of Isaac and Rebekah, and is considered a or even the traditional ancestor of the people of Israel. Genesis 25:19ff.

    Genesis 35:9-11

    9 After Jacob had returned from Paddan-aram, God appeared to him again and blessed him. 10 And God said to him, “Though your name is Jacob, you will no longer be called Jacob. Instead, your name will be Israel.” So God named him Israel. 11 And God told him, “I am God Almighty. Be fruitful and multiply. A nation—even a company of nations—shall come from you, and kings shall descend from you.…


Boanērgés – an Aramaic term transliterated from two Semitic roots: bēn ("sons") and regesh ("of thunder, tumult"; see Strong's OT #1123, 7285)
https://biblehub.com/greek/993.htm

  • There is a possible allusion in Luke 9:54 to James and John having the capacity to bring lightning from heaven:

    51 As the time approached for him to be taken up to heaven, Jesus resolutely set out for Jerusalem. 52 And he sent messengers on ahead, who went into a Samaritan village to get things ready for him; 53 but the people there did not welcome him, because he was heading for Jerusalem. 54 When the disciples James and John saw this, they asked, “Lord, do you want us to call fire down from heaven to destroy them ?55 But Jesus turned and rebuked them.


Now,
Justin Martyr was fairly obsessed with Jupiter—the Roman god of the sky and thunder, and King of the Roman gods— and with the sons of Jupiter

First Apology

chapter IV / 4
By the mere application of a name, nothing is decided, either good or evil, apart from the actions implied in the name; and indeed, so far at least as one may judge from the name we are accused of, we are most excellent people ... rom a name neither praise nor punishment could reasonably spring, unless something excellent or base in action be proved ... in our case you receive the name as proof against us ... For we are accused of being Christians, and to hate what is excellent (Chrestian) is unjust. Again, if any of the accused deny the name, and say that he is not a Christian, you acquit him, as having no evidence against him as a wrong-doer; but if any one acknowledge that he is a Christian, you punish him on account of this acknowledgment .. And this also is not right. For of philosophy, too, some assume the name and the garb who do nothing worthy of their profession; and you are well aware, that those of the ancients whose opinions and teachings were quite diverse, are yet all called by the one name of philosophers. And of these some taught atheism; and the poets who have flourished among you raise a laugh out of the uncleanness of Jupiter with his own children. And those who now adopt such instruction are not restrained by you; but, on the contrary, you bestow prizes and honours upon those who euphoniously insult the gods.


chapters 21-22 [21 in full; 22 all bar the last sentence]
And when we say also that the Word, who is the first-birth of God, was produced without sexual union, and that He, Jesus Christ, our Teacher, was crucified and died, and rose again, and ascended into heaven, we propound nothing different from what you believe regarding those whom you esteem sons of Jupiter. For you know how many sons your esteemed writers ascribed to Jupiter: Mercury, the interpreting word and teacher of all; Aesculapius, who, though he was a great physician, was struck by a thunderbolt, and so ascended to heaven; and Bacchus too, after he had been torn limb from limb; and Hercules, when he had committed himself to the flames to escape his toils; and the sons of Leda, and Dioscuri; and Perseus, son of Danae; and Bellerophon, who, though sprung from mortals, rose to heaven on the horse Pegasus. For what shall I say of Ariadne, and those who, like her, have been declared to be set among the stars?

And what of the emperors who die among yourselves, whom you deem worthy of deification, and in whose behalf you produce some one who swears he has seen the burning Caesar rise to heaven from the funeral pyre? And what kind of deeds are recorded of each of these reputed sons of Jupiter, it is needless to tell to those who already know. This only shall be said, that they are written for the advantage and encouragement of youthful scholars; for all reckon it an honourable thing to imitate the gods. But far be such a thought concerning the gods from every well-conditioned soul, as to believe that Jupiter himself, the governor and creator of all things, was both a parricide and the son of a parricide, and that being overcome by the love of base and shameful pleasures, he came in to Ganymede and those many women whom he had violated and that his sons did like actions. But, as we said above, wicked devils perpetrated these things. And we have learned that those only are deified who have lived near to God in holiness and virtue; and we believe that those who live wickedly and do not repent are punished in everlasting fire.

Moreover, the Son of God called Jesus, even if only a man by ordinary generation, yet, on account of His wisdom, is worthy to be called the Son of God; for all writers call God the Father of men and gods. And if we assert that the Word of God was born of God in a peculiar manner, different from ordinary generation, let this, as said above, be no extraordinary thing to you, who say that Mercury is the angelic word of God. But if any one objects that He was crucified, in this also He is on a par with those reputed sons of Jupiter of yours, who suffered as we have now enumerated. For their sufferings at death are recorded to have been not all alike, but diverse; so that not even by the peculiarity of His sufferings does He seem to be inferior to them; but, on the contrary, as we promised in the preceding part of this discourse, we will now prove Him superior--or rather have already proved Him to be so--for the superior is revealed by His actions.


chapter 33
hear again how Isaiah in express words foretold that He should be born of a virgin; for he spoke thus: "Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bring forth a son, and they shall say for His name, 'God with us'." For things which were incredible and seemed impossible with men, God predicted by the Spirit of prophecy as about to come to pass, in order that, when they came to pass, there might be no unbelief, but faith, because of their prediction. But lest some, not understanding the prophecy now cited, should charge us with the very things we have been laying to the charge of the poets who say that Jupiter went in to women through lust, let us try to explain the words. This, then, "Behold, a virgin shall conceive," signifies that a virgin should conceive without intercourse.


chapter 53
Though we could bring forward many other prophecies, we forbear, judging these sufficient for the persuasion of those who have ears to hear and understand; and considering also that those persons are able to see that we do not make mere assertions without being able to produce proof, like those fables that are told of the so-called sons of Jupiter. For with what reason should we believe of a crucified man that He is the first-born of the unbegotten God, and Himself will pass judgment on the whole human race, unless we had found testimonies concerning Him published before He came and was born as man, and unless we saw that things had happened accordingly -- the devastation of the land of the Jews, and men of every race persuaded by His teaching through the apostles, and rejecting their old habits, in which, being deceived, they had their conversation; yea, seeing ourselves too, and knowing that the Christians from among the Gentiles are both more numerous and more true than those from among the Jews and Samaritans?

chapter 54
But those who hand down the myths which the poets have made, adduce no proof to the youths who learn them; and we proceed to demonstrate that they have been uttered by the influence of the wicked demons, to deceive and lead astray the human race. For having heard it proclaimed through the prophets that the Christ was to come, and that the ungodly among men were to be punished by fire, they put forward many to be called sons of Jupiter, under the impression that they would be able to produce in men the idea that the things which were said with regard to Christ were mere marvellous tales, like the things which were said by the poets ... it was thus predicted: "There shall not fail a prince from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until He come for whom it is reserved; and He shall be the desire of the Gentiles, binding His foal to the vine, washing His robe in the blood of the grape." The devils, accordingly, when they heard these prophetic words, said that Bacchus was the son of Jupiter, and gave out that he was the discoverer of the vine, and they number wine [or, the ass] among his mysteries; and they taught that, having been torn in pieces, he ascended into heaven.

chapter 55
But in no instance, not even in any of those called sons of Jupiter, did they imitate 'the being' crucified; for it was not understood by them, all the things said of it having been put symbolically. And this, as the prophet foretold, is the greatest symbol of His power and role ...

chapter 56
But the evil spirits were not [just] satisfied, before Christ's appearance, with saying that those who were said to be sons of Jupiter were born of him; but after He had appeared, and been born among men, and when they learned how He had been foretold by the prophets, and knew that He should be believed on and looked for by every nation, they again, as was said above, put forward other men, the Samaritans Simon and Menander, who did many mighty works by magic, and deceived many, and still keep them deceived. For even among yourselves, as we said before, Simon was in the royal city Rome in the reign of Claudius Caesar, and so greatly astonished the sacred senate and people of the Romans, that he was considered a god, and honoured, like the others whom you honour as gods, with a statue ...


chapter 64 [where the daughters of Jupiter are disparaged]
From what has been already said, you can understand how the devils, in imitation of what was said by Moses, asserted that Proserpine was the daughter of Jupiter, and instigated the people to set up an image of her under the name of Kore [Cora, i.e., the maiden or daughter] at the spring-heads. For, as we wrote above, Moses said, "In the beginning God made the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form and unfurnished: and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters." In imitation, therefore, of what is here said of the Spirit of God moving on the waters, they said that Proserpine [or Cora] was the daughter of Jupiter. And in like manner also they craftily feigned that Minerva was the daughter of Jupiter, not by sexual union, but, knowing that God conceived and made the world by the Word, they say that Minerva is the first conception [ennoia]; which we consider to be very absurd, bringing forward the form of the conception in a female shape. And in like manner the actions of those others who are called sons of Jupiter sufficiently condemn them.


There's one mention of Jupiter in the Justin's Second Apology, not in relation to his sons, but men "imitating Jupiter and the other gods in sodomy and shameless intercourse with woman".


Dialogue with Trypho, the end of chapter 68 and the beginning of chapter 69:

" .. they have taught you that this Scripture which we are now discussing refers to Hezekiah, in which, as I promised, I shall show they are wrong. And since they are compelled, they agree that some Scriptures which we mention to them, and which expressly prove that Christ was to suffer, to be worshipped, and[to be called] God, and which I have already recited to you, do refer indeed to Christ, but they venture to assert that this man is not Christ. But they admit that He will come to suffer, and to reign, and to be worshipped, and to be God; and this opinion I shall in like manner show to be ridiculous and silly. But since I am pressed to answer first to what was said by you in jest, I shall make answer to it, and shall afterwards give replies to what follows.

""Be well assured, then, Trypho," I continued, "that I am established in the knowledge of and faith in the Scriptures by those counterfeits which he who is called the devil is said to have performed among the Greeks; just as some were wrought by the Magi in Egypt, and others by the false prophets in Elijah's days. For when they tell that Bacchus, son of Jupiter, was begotten by [Jupiter's] intercourse with Semele, and that he was the discoverer of the vine; and when they relate, that being torn in pieces, and having died, he rose again, and ascended to heaven; and when they introduce wine into his mysteries, do I not perceive that [the devil] has imitated the prophecy announced by the patriarch Jacob, and recorded by Moses? And when they tell that Hercules [a son of Jupiter] was strong, and travelled over all the world, and was begotten by Jove of Alcmene, and ascended to heaven when he died, do I not perceive that the Scripture which speaks of Christ, 'strong as a giant to run his race,' has been in like manner imitated?




There are other mentions of Zebedee in the NT

See https://biblehub.com/topical/z/zebedee.htm

eg. -
Mark 15:40 names the women present at the crucifixion as, "Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the Less and of Joses, and Salome"
The parallel passage in Matthew 27:56 has, "Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedee's children."
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MrMacSon
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Re: The Sons of Thunder

Post by MrMacSon »

MrMacSon wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 8:00 pm
Mark 1

15 Now as he walked by the sea of Galilee, he saw Simon and Andrew his brother casting a net into the sea: for they were fishers.

17 And Jesus said unto them, Come ye after me, and I will make you to become fishers of men.

18 And straightway they forsook their nets, and followed him.


19 And when he had gone a little farther thence, he saw James the son of Zebedee / Ζεβεδαῖος, and John his brother, who also were in the ship mending their nets.

20 And straightway he called them: and they left their father Zebedee in the ship with the hired servants, and went after him.

21 And they went into Capernaum; and straightway on the sabbath day he entered into the synagogue, and taught.

(also Matthew 4:21-2)


Mark 3

13 Jesus went up on a mountainside and called to him those he wanted, and they came to him.

14 He appointed twelve [[in some manuscripts] designating them apostles] that they might be with him and that he might send them out to preach

15 and to have authority to drive out demons.

16 These are the twelve he appointed:

......Simon (to whom he gave the name Peter),

..17 James son of Zebedee / Ζεβεδαῖος and his brother John (to them he gave the [sur]name Boanērgés, which means “sons of thunder”),

..18 Andrew, Philip, Bartholomew, Matthew, Thomas, James son of Alphaeus, Thaddaeus, Simon the Zealot

..19 and Judas Iscariot, who betrayed him.

(also Matt 10:2; though without reference to Boanērgés)
.
These tropes in Mark 3 seem like duplicate or perhaps belated assignment of Jesus' disciples / apostles / to 'the Twelve'.

Especially when Mark 2 and 3 previously assert the disciples in 2:12,23 and 3:7.

Which raises the question about why it appeared in the middle of Mark 3 with another 'change-the-names' theme which pervade the Old and New Testaments and Justin Martyr: and the only other text to refer to Boanērgés is Justin in Dialogue with Trypho 106.
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MrMacSon
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Re: The Sons of Thunder

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another 'change-the-names' theme which pervade[s] the Old and New Testaments, and Justin Martyr
... and Philo and Josephus -

."upon the death of Onias the high priest, they gave the high priesthood to Y'shua/Jesus his brother ... this Y'shua/Jesus, who was the brother of Onias, was deprived of the high priesthood by the king, who was angry with him, and gave it to his younger brother, whose name also was Onias; for Simon had these three sons, to each of which the priesthood came, as we have already informed the reader.

"This Y'shua/Jesus changed his name to Jason, but Onias was called Menelaus. Now as the former high priest, Y'shua/Jesus, raised a sedition against Menelaus, who was ordained after him, the multitude were divided between them both. And the sons of Tobias took the part of Menelaus, but the greater part of the people assisted Jason; and by that means Menelaus and the sons of Tobias were distressed, and retired to Antiochus, and informed him that they were desirous to leave the laws of their country, and the Jewish way of living according to them, and to follow the king's laws, and the Grecian way of living. Wherefore they desired his permission to build them a Gymnasium at Jerusalem.15 And when he had given them leave, they also hid the circumcision of their genitals, that even when they were naked they might appear to be Greeks. Accordingly, they left off all the customs that belonged to their own country, and imitated the practices of the other nations."

Josephus, 'Antiquities' 12.5.1 §239

15 "Gymnasium" = a place where the exercises were performed naked, which, because it would naturally distinguish circumcised Jews from uncircumcised Gentiles, these Jewish apostates endeavoured to appear uncircumcised, by means of a surgical operation, hinted at by Paul, 1 Corinthians 7:18, and described by Celsus, B. VII. ch. 25
.

Besides the issue of changing names, there's also the issue in that passage of seeking to change appearance

(and, there's also mention of Jason the son of Eleazar in chapter 10 of the same book 12)
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MrMacSon
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Re: The Sons of Thunder

Post by MrMacSon »

MrMacSon wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 2:57 pm
another 'change-the-names' theme which pervade[s] the Old and New Testaments, and Justin Martyr
... and Philo and Josephus -
In dealing with Ezra* in his Antiquities (*which he derives entirely from 1 Esdras)1, Josephus uses the name Xerxes for Artaxerxes I, reserving the name Artaxerxes for the later Artaxerxes II whom he identifies as the Ahasuerus of Esther (thus placing Ezra before the events of the book of Esther).

1 Likewise, when and where early Christian writers refer to the 'Book of Ezra', they are almost always referring to the the text of 1 Esdras (Clement of Alexandria in his Stromata referred to 'Ezra' as an example of prophetic inspiration, quoting a section from 2 Esdras).
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