Page 12 of 15

Re: Some Observations on the Nomina Sacra of the First Three Centuries

Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:24 am
by Kapyong
Ben C. Smith wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 5:05 pm Basically, the suggestion is that the abbreviations of what may be considered the most important names, titles, and related nouns of early Christianity run parallel, both in form and in effect, to the abbreviations of the names and titles of important Roman officials in inscriptions and especially on coins, which everyone great or small would have regular access to.
By J, I think you've got it, B. :D
A habit that continues -

I'm holding a coin marked "Elizabeth II D. G. Reg. F. D. 5 Pounds" - all the abbreviations being religious or titular. I'd guess almost every high school kid in the UK would know what they stand for.

Reminds me of the very prominent "G" in Freemasonry, and how many church books and docs are marked "AMDG".

(Great work Jax, the NS really are curious stuff.)

Re: Some Observations on the Nomina Sacra of the First Three Centuries

Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:46 am
by Jax
Kapyong wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:24 am
Ben C. Smith wrote: Tue Apr 06, 2021 5:05 pm Basically, the suggestion is that the abbreviations of what may be considered the most important names, titles, and related nouns of early Christianity run parallel, both in form and in effect, to the abbreviations of the names and titles of important Roman officials in inscriptions and especially on coins, which everyone great or small would have regular access to.
By J, I think you've got it, B. :D
A habit that continues -

I'm holding a coin marked "Elizabeth II D. G. Reg. F. D. 5 Pounds" - all the abbreviations being religious or titular. I'd guess almost every high school kid in the UK would know what they stand for.

Reminds me of the very prominent "G" in Freemasonry, and how many church books and docs are marked "AMDG".

(Great work Jax, the NS really are curious stuff.)
Cheers Kapyong, how you been?

Re: Some Observations on the Nomina Sacra of the First Three Centuries

Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:44 pm
by Kapyong
Hey Jax :)
all good here, been doing other areas of history.

A few more examples of ancient abbreviations -

The mysterious 'E' at the Temple at Delphi.
The Spartan 'L' on their shields.
Even 'YHWH'.

Re: Some Observations on the Nomina Sacra of the First Three Centuries

Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:47 pm
by Ben C. Smith
Kapyong wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:44 pmA few more examples of ancient abbreviations -

The mysterious 'E' at the Temple at Delphi.
The Spartan 'L' on their shields.
Even 'YHWH'.
If YHWH is an abbreviation, then all ancient Hebrew words are abbreviations before the Masoretes added vowel points.

Re: Some Observations on the Nomina Sacra of the First Three Centuries

Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:05 pm
by hakeem
Kapyong wrote:
I'm holding a coin marked "Elizabeth II D. G. Reg. F. D. 5 Pounds" - all the abbreviations being religious or titular. I'd guess almost every high school kid in the UK would know what they stand for.

Reminds me of the very prominent "G" in Freemasonry, and how many church books and docs are marked "AMDG".

(Great work Jax, the NS really are curious stuff.)
I don't know how a coin which clearly shows the name "Elizabeth II" has any relevancy with the Nomina Sacra?

Re: Some Observations on the Nomina Sacra of the First Three Centuries

Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 7:18 am
by Jax
Kapyong wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:44 pm Hey Jax :)
all good here, been doing other areas of history.

A few more examples of ancient abbreviations -

The mysterious 'E' at the Temple at Delphi.
The Spartan 'L' on their shields.
Even 'YHWH'.
Glad you're doing well bud. What other areas of history are you studying?

Re: Some Observations on the Nomina Sacra of the First Three Centuries

Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:03 pm
by Kapyong
"If YHWH is an abbreviation, then all ancient Hebrew words are abbreviations before the Masoretes added vowel points."

Yah, I was wrong there.

"I don't know how a coin which clearly shows the name "Elizabeth II" has any relevancy with the Nomina Sacra?"

The NS cover more than just personal names - F.D. is a religious title, Jerusalem compares to 'L' for Lakedaimonia. But English monarchs don't like to abbreviate their names, which is an obvious difference, yes.

"Glad you're doing well bud. What other areas of history are you studying?"

Everything is interesting. Now reading E. Michael Jones' Barren Metal, mostly about money, covering 1500s on - with contemporary shows for flavour like The Borgias or The Mission. Hope you're well too :)

Re: Some Observations on the Nomina Sacra of the First Three Centuries

Posted: Sat May 08, 2021 1:08 pm
by mlinssen
Jax, I wouldn't use WEB, it's pretty lacking. Allegedly or seemingly based on NASB but I found a few nasty surprises after I finished my work on the 70+ parallels between the 5 texts

I really wish I had used Berean Literal, their Berean Greek is fine too. Then again there's no perfect choice I think, but Berean lets you have 2,000 verses without any nagging

https://berean.bible/terms.htm

Re: Some Observations on the Nomina Sacra of the First Three Centuries

Posted: Sat May 08, 2021 1:50 pm
by mlinssen
And I'll butt in anyway:

"abbreviation" most certainly does not a nomen sacrum make

1. Is the word shorter than it could be? Mark with A (possibly A1 and such for different forms of the same word)
2. Does the word have a superlinear stroke? Mark with S (S1 for multiple strokes, S2 for a single stroke covering multiple letters, S3 for a stroke that covers the entire word
3. Make an exception for the I(H)S variants as those don't fit the definition of (1). Xrestos also is an odd one out as the Greek word means good but X(P)C naturally implies something entirely different

Have a look at https://www.academia.edu/Documents/in/Nomina_Sacra and check out

https://www.academia.edu/9048303/_Readi ... 015_566_94

https://www.academia.edu/6423187/Consen ... anuscripts

(Use at own risk LOL)

https://www.google.com/search?q=Academi ... mina+sacra helps too LOL

In related news:

Grondin does have helpful research on Thomas sometimes: https://www.academia.edu/34602316/The_N ... ir_Numbers - I don't know about the Greek but the info on the Coptic is correct

https://www.academia.edu/37445283/Nomin ... di_Library gives you a fine overview of the Nag Hammadi uses

Re: Some Observations on the Nomina Sacra of the First Three Centuries

Posted: Sat May 08, 2021 2:53 pm
by Jax
mlinssen wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 1:08 pm Jax, I wouldn't use WEB, it's pretty lacking. Allegedly or seemingly based on NASB but I found a few nasty surprises after I finished my work on the 70+ parallels between the 5 texts

I really wish I had used Berean Literal, their Berean Greek is fine too. Then again there's no perfect choice I think, but Berean lets you have 2,000 verses without any nagging

https://berean.bible/terms.htm
Thanks Martijn, I just use the WEB as a general template to circumvent copyright with most of my translation coming from The New Testament by Bentley Hart and places like Scripture 4 all. When in doubt I try to figure out the original Greek and or ask questions here. I will totally add Berean to my toolbox though. Much appreciate the heads up. :thumbup: