Secret Mark is Already Known to Jerome

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
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Ben C. Smith
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Re: Secret Mark is Already Known to Jerome

Post by Ben C. Smith »

Secret Alias wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 6:28 am What about this translation

assumpto (taking) itaque (therefore) evangelio (gospel) quod ipse (the same) confecerat (completed) , perrexit (went) Aegyptum (Egypt) et primus (and first) Alexandriae (Alexandria) Christum annucians (Christ announced) constituit ecclesiam (constituted a church) tanta doctrina (such teaching) et vitae continentia (and continence of life) ut omnes sectatores Christi (all followers of Christ) ad exemplum sui (by his copy) cogere (compels)
What would ad exemplum sui cogere mean, exactly, if exemplum is a physical manuscript? What does it mean to drive someone to a manuscript? (A phrase like exemplum sui is such a set, stereotypical thing that I doubt it would be used in this way, unless you have an analogy.)
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Re: Secret Mark is Already Known to Jerome

Post by Secret Alias »

That's why you're the smart one and I'm just the ambitious one. You got the better end of the stick.
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Re: Secret Mark is Already Known to Jerome

Post by Secret Alias »

I just don't get the structure of the passage (aside from having some obvious prejudice/interest beyond the passage itself):

Eusebius:
1. Mark writes, Peter speaks in Rome gives the Romans a gospel
2. cite 1 Peter (to confirm that relationship)
3. Mark goes to Egypt establishes churches cite Philo

Jerome retells the story:
1. Mark writes Peter speaks in Rome gives the Romans a gospel
2. cite 1 Peter
3. Mark goes to Egypt with a gospel establishes Christian coverts by bringing them his exemplum mention Philo

It's just curious to add both 'the gospel' and 'by his exemplum' when none of this is in Eusebius and everything else is. Seems to me (perhaps biased as I am) that Jerome is drawing on something. My guess is Clement's Hypotyposes. Maybe Eusebius didn't have that text only a summary.
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Re: Secret Mark is Already Known to Jerome

Post by Secret Alias »

Doesn't this come close?

EXEMPLUM. In the civil law. Copy; a written authorized copy. This word is also used In the modern sense of "example," — ad exemplum constituti singulares non trahi, exceptional things must not be taken for examples.
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Re: Secret Mark is Already Known to Jerome

Post by perseusomega9 »

come close to our colloquial use (modern sense) of example?
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Re: Secret Mark is Already Known to Jerome

Post by Secret Alias »

I think this provides the right context.

In commune jubes si quid , censesque tenendum , Primus jussa subi , tuus observantior æqui Fit populus , nec ferre negat cùm viderit ipsum Auctorem parere sibi ; componitur orbis Regis ad exemplum ; nec sic inflectere sensus Humanos edicta valent, ut vita regentis

Would you your public laws should sacred stand , Lead first the way , and act what you command , The crowd grow mild and tractable to see The author governed by bis own decree . The world turns round , as its great matter draws the princes lives bind stronger than their laws

Dryden translation - the world shapes itself after its ruler's pattern, nor can edicts sway men's minds so much as their monarch's life
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Re: Secret Mark is Already Known to Jerome

Post by Secret Alias »

It's not secret Mark per se but it's halfway there. Jerome is saying that Mark not Peter was responsible for the celibate nature of Egyptian Christianity which is still remarkable:

As for Mark, then, during Peter's stay in Rome he wrote an account of the Lord’s doings, not, however, declaring all of them, nor yet hinting at the [mystic]2 ones, but selecting what he thought most useful for increasing the faith of those who were being instructed. But when Peter died a martyr, Mark came over to Alexandria, bringing both his own notes and those of Peter, from which he transferred to his former book the things suitable to [those studies which make for]3 progress toward knowledge. Thus he composed a more spiritual Gospel for the use of those who were being perfected. Nevertheless, he yet did not divulge the things not to be uttered, nor did he write down the hierophantic teaching of the Lord, but to the stories already written he added yet others and, moreover, brought in certain [traditions]4 of which he knew the interpretation would, as a mystagogue, lead the hearers into the innermost sanctuary of the truth hidden by seven veils. Thus, in sum, he prepared matters, neither grudgingly nor incautiously, in my opinion, and, dying, he left his composition to the church in Alexandria, where it even yet is [preserved with utmost discretion],5 being read only to those who are being initiated into the great mysteries.

The idea that Mark was responsible is implicit in Eusebius.
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Ben C. Smith
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Re: Secret Mark is Already Known to Jerome

Post by Ben C. Smith »

Secret Alias wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 1:32 pm Doesn't this come close?

EXEMPLUM. In the civil law. Copy; a written authorized copy. This word is also used In the modern sense of "example," — ad exemplum constituti singulares non trahi, exceptional things must not be taken for examples.
An exemplum can be a copy; that is not in dispute. The issue is whether that is a better meaning for the word in the example you gave.
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Re: Secret Mark is Already Known to Jerome

Post by Secret Alias »

I know. I am acknowledging the limitation. Yet there is still something odd about saying in effect "Mark brought our gospel from Rome to Alexandria and the Church there learned celibacy from his pattern/example." I see how exemplum doesn't mean 'authorized copy' per se. But I am trying to see how far you can bend the understanding of gospel from Peter written by Mark (= law) and Mark (= exemplum). Another translation of Commodian:

If thou make any law or establish any custom for the general good, be the first to submit thyself thereto; then does a people show more regard for justice nor refuse submission when it has seen their author obedient to his own laws. The world shapes itself after its ruler’s pattern, nor can edicts sway men’s minds so much as their monarch’s life; the unstable crowd ever changes along with the prince.
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Re: Secret Mark is Already Known to Jerome

Post by Secret Alias »

Tertullian seems to imply that the ad exemplum thing goes back to Paul:

Add to this the fact that the apostle, with regard to widows and the unmarried, advises them to remain permanently in that state, when he says, "But I desire all to persevere in (imitation of) my example ( qui nos ad exemplum sui hortatur) "

"Tertullian implies that St. Paul and the Holy Spirit are joined as one cause in the composition of this epistle . The close identification leads to a confusion of subject in the clause qui nos ad exemplum suum horatatur."

Curious passage.

Pelagius, ad Dem. 20.1; PL 30, 34-35; “Perfacile est enim aliquam vestem habere contentam salutare submissius, manus et genua deosculari, inclinato in terram capite, oculisque dejectis, humilitatem ac mansuetudinem polliceri, lenta voce tenuique sermones in-fringere, suspirare crebrius, et ad omne verbum peccatorem ac miserum se clamare. Et si vel levi sermone ofensus sit, continuo attollere supercilium, levare cervicem, et delicatum illum oris sonum insano repente clamore mutare. Aliam nos humilitatem Christus docuit, qui nos ad exemplum suum hortatur (It was another sort of humility that Christ taught us, encouraging us to follow his example"
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