On the Possible Connection Between Jerusalem and Amsterdam

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
Secret Alias
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Re: On the Possible Connection Between Jerusalem and Amsterdam

Post by Secret Alias »

More on the Egyptian provenance of the Life of Abraham the Hermit fragment:
Leaves of a Greek Codex Life of Abraham by Qiduna Fayum (Egypt). v1 "(ou vire - vur?] ... Le papyrus Louvre E 7404 , édité dès 1889 par K . Wessely , et dont D . Hemmerdinger se demande s ' il appartient au Vie ou aux Vije - ville siècles , est écrit dans une belle onciale grecque de type copte , à 23 / 25 lignes , selon les pages . Comme le note Jean Irigoin , l ' onciale grecque de type copte , en vigueur du milieu du VIe siècle au Xe siècle , fut employée à la chancellerie patriarcale d ' Alexandrie , et adaptée par les Coptes d ' Égypte pour la transcription de leur langue. Elle fut utilisée sur parchemin comme sur papyrus, pour des textes diplomatiques, scripturaires, patristiques, , liturgiques ou littéraires . Les manuscrits ( une soixantaine de fragments recensés par Jean Irigoin , provenant pour la
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StephenGoranson
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Re: On the Possible Connection Between Jerusalem and Amsterdam

Post by StephenGoranson »

…and it’s the only copy known (plus not alluded to elsewhere), and the front cover and spine have been removed (but not the back cover), which (a) probably removed evidence of who had owned the book (and maybe when it was elsewhere than Mar Saba) and (b) provided more (besides page 11) paper test material, both a book page and a binding sheet,…..
Secret Alias
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Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2015 8:47 am

Re: On the Possible Connection Between Jerusalem and Amsterdam

Post by Secret Alias »

…and it’s the only copy known (plus not alluded to elsewhere), and the front cover and spine have been removed (but not the back cover), which (a) probably removed evidence of who had owned the book (and maybe when it was elsewhere than Mar Saba) and (b) provided more (besides page 11) paper test material, both a book page and a binding sheet,…..
How many copies of a letter which describes Alexandria as being founded on a non-canonical gospel by the apostle by which the lineage of all Popes in Egypt were established do you expect to have survived? You know how those Church Fathers loved to celebrate 'diversity.' We don't hear about most of the documents from Qumran and Nag Hammadi in any other sources. Therefore they are forgeries too. This is so stupid. It is like trying to convince a Trump supporter that the election wasn't decided by fraud. I don't see how you can't see how ridiculous these arguments are. Have you seen pictures of the 'behind the scenes' of monastic libraries? My friend Harry Tzalas told me when he paid for the renovation of the Alexandrian Apostolic See there were cats raising their babies in books! They were using ancient documents for all sorts of things. Using old books as primitive tools to satisfy the everyday needs of the monks. Either you don't know what you are talking about or you - like a Trump supporter - have the unique ability of picking and choosing when you want to be truthful. A missing cover on the Voss edition is not an argument for forgery unless you have a mind like a Trump supporter. Sorry. To repeatedly make such a stupid assertion is intellectual barbarism.
Secret Alias
Posts: 18922
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2015 8:47 am

Re: On the Possible Connection Between Jerusalem and Amsterdam

Post by Secret Alias »

Back to my pre-work work:
Feuillets d ' un codex grec Vie d ' Abraham de Qiduna Fayoum ( Égypte ) . v1 " ( ou vire - vur ? ] ... Le papyrus Louvre E 7404 , édité dès 1889 par K . Wessely , et dont D . Hemmerdinger se demande s ' il appartient au Vie ou aux Vije - ville siècles , est écrit dans une belle onciale grecque de type copte , à 23 / 25 lignes , selon les pages . Comme le note Jean Irigoin , l ' onciale grecque de type copte , en vigueur du milieu du VIe siècle au Xe siècle , fut employée à la chancellerie patriarcale d ' Alexandrie , et adaptée par les Coptes d ' Égypte pour la transcription de leur langue. Elle fut utilisée sur parchemin comme sur papyrus, pour des textes diplomatiques, scripturaires, patristiques, , liturgiques ou littéraires . Les manuscrits ( une soixantaine de fragments recensés par Jean Irigoin , provenant pour la provenant pour la plupart de codice) traduisent une homogénéité beaucoup plus grande des formats et des pages plus étroites, lorsque le papyrus sert de support. Le fragment présenté montre bien l'architecture des deux pages et la pliure centrale, ainsi que la forme renflée du phi, caractéristique de cette onciale. AM
Traduisez:

Leaves of a Greek Codex Life of Abraham by Qiduna Fayum (Egypt). v1 "(or vire - vur?] ... The Louvre E 7404 papyrus, published in 1889 by K. Wessely, and which D. Hemmerdinger wonders if it belongs to Life or to the Vije-ville centuries, is written in a beautiful Greek uncial of the Coptic type, 23/25 lines, depending on the pages. As Jean Irigoin notes, the Greek uncial of the Coptic type, in force from the middle of the 6th century to the 10th century, was employed in the patriarchal chancellery of Alexandria, and adapted by the Copts of Egypt for the transcription of their language. It was used on parchment as on papyrus, for diplomatic, scriptural, patristic, liturgical or literary texts. Manuscripts (about sixty fragments listed by John Irigoin, coming for the most part from codice) translate a much greater homogeneity of formats and narrower pages, when the papyrus is used as a support. The fragment presented clearly shows the architecture of the two pages and the cent rale, as well as the swollen shape of the phi, characteristic of this uncial. AM

https://www.trismegistos.org/text/65293
Secret Alias
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Re: On the Possible Connection Between Jerusalem and Amsterdam

Post by Secret Alias »

More on the script
The script can be characterized as an example of the later bimodular, Alexandrian majuscule common from the sixth to the eighth centuries.15 This script is so common among Coptic manuscripts that it has received the classification "Coptic Uncial” for Greek manuscripts.16 A good comparandum is P.Oxy. 20.2258 (LDAB 523; Callimachus, sixth century c.e.), which can be firmly dated to the sixth century.17 But the script continues well into the seventh century (and even into the eighth, but with more flourishes), as can be seen in an equally close parallel in P.Louvre Hag. 2–5 (LDAB 6537; Lives of Saints, seventh century c.e.).18 Thus, we should revise Hunt's original dating of sixth century to sixth/seventh century. (Brice Jones)
Secret Alias
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Re: On the Possible Connection Between Jerusalem and Amsterdam

Post by Secret Alias »

Another Alexandrian text:

The Cotton Genesis has θου ch. i. 27 by a later hand, but ¸µøÅ ch. xli. 38.

Also P.Lond. V 1784, 1 (7th c.)

Another Egyptian text in Horsley https://books.google.com/books?id=acoUL ... ra&f=false

Seems to be an Egyptian abbreviation.
Secret Alias
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Re: On the Possible Connection Between Jerusalem and Amsterdam

Post by Secret Alias »

It would seem I finally found a thorough discussion of the Egyptian nomen sacrum found in to Theodore https://books.google.com/books?id=MTS-Z ... 22&f=false. It would seem there was a healthy debate about Paap's finding (although Traube found others). To Theodore's discussion of the Alexandrian Church of St Mark would also make sense with its employment of an Egyptian nomen sacrum.
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