Jesus Mythicism & 1 John

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Irish1975
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Jesus Mythicism & 1 John

Post by Irish1975 »


Hypothesis: 1 John makes sense on the mythicist theory about Jesus Christ despite its own affirmation of a historical Jesus. It reflects the controversy and upheaval that, on the mythicist hypothesis, must have attended the transformation of the Jesus figure as the Gospel stories were developed and shared. 1 John reflects the aftermath of the church's recent acceptance of one or more narrative accounts of a recently historical Jesus of Nazareth as being one and the same Jesus Christ as the celestial/mystical one originally preached to them.

Earl Doherty, seeking to read 1 John in conformity with his general thesis that the NT epistles presuppose a mystical/celestial Jesus Christ rather than a historical Jesus of Nazareth, suggested that this epistle was originally mythicist, but through a later redaction was made to conform to the Gospel ideas of a historical Jesus. This reading of 1 John is not convincing, because there are no obvious indications of later editing. The language is raw, unpolished, sometimes clumsily repetitive, but there is a unity of purpose and theme throughout. It is not a letter, of course, but some kind of written testimony, declaration, or manifesto. And it emerged out of an identity crisis for the community, which explains the severe, all-or-nothing intensity of its message.
1 John 2: 18-19
Children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have come; therefore we know that it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out, that it might be plain that they all are not of us. But you have been anointed by the Holy One, and you know all things. I write to you, not because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and know that no lie is of the truth. Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son. 23 No one who denies the Son has the Father.
Any sensible reading of 1 John must explain why a community that was, on the historicist view, founded on (or at least in accordance with) a belief that Jesus of Nazareth was the messiah, would have suffered a major schism over this very belief. It is not merely the supposedly anti-docetic statement in 4:2 that the author brings to the fore, but simply the idea that Jesus was the Christ. The two statements seem to have the same weight, the same basic meaning for him. A faction of docetists can hardly explain the traumatic rupture of the community over the most basic proposition of Christianity itself, that Jesus is the Christ.

Assuming an originally celestial/mystical rather than a historical Jesus, it is possible that 1 John reflects a recent acceptance of the story of Jesus of Nazareth, which caused a hateful division in the community and a major schism.

There are three parts to this analysis. (1) The author is historicist about Jesus; (2) the author's (or the church's) original "commandment" or teaching about Jesus Christ was not historicist, but celestial/mystical; and (3) the allegedly deceiving schismatics who left the church did so because they refused to accept the new teaching about Jesus.

1. The author of 1 John believed in a historical Jesus--

who was not merely called "Jesus Christ" but who was the Christ 2.22
who was the only Son of God 4:15
who was sent into the world "in the flesh" 4:2
who was righteous 2:1
who walked according to the commandments 2:6
who laid down his life for others as a model for what believers ought to do 3:16
whose bloody death was an atoning sacrifice for the sins of the world 1:7, 2:1
who came not only by the water of baptism but by the blood of sacrifice 5:7-8
and who is known to believers not only by the testimony of God but also by the testimony of human beings 5:9

Admittedly, this is a minimally historical Jesus. But it is a considerable advance beyond Paul, who never wrote of Jesus as a moral exemplar. Most important, the primary affirmation that Jesus is the Christ aligns with Mark 8:39 and with the entire Gospels/Acts account of Jesus. But it has no antecedent in Paul, who never said "Jesus is the Christ." The original gospel of Jesus Christ was not a gospel that Jesus is the Christ. This leads us to the second layer in 1 John:

2. The author presupposes and reaffirms an earlier teaching "from the beginning," given through the Spirit and through the anointing (2:20) and through the water (of baptism), through which the believers "know all things," and it is simply through this original knowledge of the Father/the Son/the Spirit given in the anointing they received that they are able to accept the "testimony of human beings" (5:9) about Jesus. The historical Jesus is grafted onto the celestial/mystical Jesus Christ.

3. The author is writing in order to refute "those who would deceive you" (2:26), who make three specific denials that amount to the same thing: (1) they deny that Jesus is the Christ (2:22); (2) they deny that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh (4:2); and therefore (3) they deny Jesus altogether. In denying the Son, they deny the Father, and make God a liar, since it is God himself who provided the testimony about his own Son (5:10). These denials result in the complete loss of communion with the author, who is "from God" (4:6), and therefore they are completely in darkness, on team Satan, as unloving as Cain, etc. In reality, these people probably had their own legitimate reasons not to accept the new stories, and we're very angry and disruptive about it. Hence the drama of 1 John.

This text seems to have a very significant Christological purpose, in addition to the moral and cosmically dualistic themes for which it is generally known. The author skillfully weaves the Christological argument along with the moral and theological argument, so that the reader comes away completely unable to disentangle the desire to maintain fellowship with a loving God from the necessary faith in a specific, historical Jesus. Perhaps the most telling sign of the author's underhanded purpose is his self-contradictory hesitation over whether or not he is offering the church a "new commandment":
1 John 2: 7-8
Beloved, I am writing you no new commandment, but an old commandment which you had from the beginning; the old commandment is the word which you have heard. Yet I am writing you a new commandment, which is true in him and in you, because the darkness is passing away and the true light is already shining.
First a denial, then a hesitation. Then he finally comes around to what the new commandment is:
1 John 3:23
And this is his commandment, that we should believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he has commanded us.
There is nothing new about the commandment to love one another. What is perhaps new is the commandment to believe in the name, because these new stories are coming out about who Jesus is. If the figure of Jesus had never changed, what would be the struggle, or the controversy, about believing that Jesus came in the flesh as the Christ?

The author of 1 John is absolutely insistent that he is only preaching the original faith, even though acceptance of something new is being demanded. It's a tangled, underhanded text.
Last edited by Irish1975 on Fri Dec 04, 2020 10:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Ben C. Smith
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Re: Jesus Mythicism & 1 John

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Irish1975 wrote: Tue Dec 01, 2020 3:44 pmAny sensible reading of 1 John must explain why a community that was, on the historicist view, founded on (or at least in accordance with) a belief that Jesus of Nazareth was the messiah, would have suffered a major schism over this very belief. It is not merely the supposedly anti-docetic statement in 4:2 that the author brings to the fore, but simply the idea that Jesus was the Christ.
I am not completely sure about what I am going to present in response, but I want to give your hypothesis as solid a competitor as possible. What about something Cerinthian? For Cerinthus, Jesus was not the Christ; rather, the Christ was a spirit which inhabited Jesus for a while:

Irenaeus, Against Heresies 1.26.1: 1 Cerinthus, again, a man who was educated in the wisdom of the Egyptians, taught that the world was not made by the primary God, but by a certain Power far separated from him, and at a distance from that Principality who is supreme over the universe, and ignorant of him who is above all. He represented Jesus as having not been born of a virgin, but as being the son of Joseph and Mary according to the ordinary course of human generation, while he nevertheless was more righteous, prudent, and wise than other men. Moreover, after his baptism, Christ descended upon him in the form of a dove from the Supreme Ruler, and that then he preached the unknown Father and performed miracles. But at last Christ departed from Jesus, and that then Jesus suffered and rose again, while Christ remained impassible, inasmuch as he was a spiritual being. / Hippolytus, Refutation 7.33: 33 Κήρινθος δέ τις, <καὶ> αὐτὸς Αἰγυπτίων παιδείᾳ ἀσκηθείς, ἔλεγεν οὐχ ὑπὸ τοῦ πρώτου <θεοῦ> γεγονέναι τὸν κόσμον, ἀλλ' ὑπὸ δυνάμεώς τινος <πολὺ> κεχωρισμένης τῆς ὑπὲρ τὰ ὅλα ἐξουσίας καὶ ἀγνοούσης τὸν ὑπὲρ <τὰ> πάντα θεόν. τὸν δὲ Ἰησοῦν ὑπέθετο μὴ ἐκ παρθένου γεγεν<ν>ῆσθαι, γεγονέναι δὲ αὐτὸν ἐξ Ἰωσὴφ καὶ Μαρίας υἱόν, ὁμοίως τοῖς λοιποῖς ἅπασιν ἀνθρώποις, καὶ δικαιότερον γεγονέναι καὶ σοφώτερον <πάντων>. καὶ μετὰ τὸ βάπτισμα κατελθεῖν εἰς αὐτὸν [τὸν] <ἐκ> τῆς ὑπὲρ τὰ ὅλα αὐθεντίας τὸν Χριστὸν ἐν εἴδει περιστερᾶς· καὶ τότε κηρῦξαι τὸν <ἄ>γνωστον πατέρα καὶ δυνάμεις ἐπιτελέσαι. πρὸς δὲ τῷ τέλει ἀποπτῆναι τὸν Χριστὸν ἀπὸ τοῦ Ἰησοῦ, καὶ τὸν <μὲν> Ἰησοῦν πεπονθέναι καὶ ἐγηγέρθαι, τὸν δὲ Χριστὸν ἀπαθῆ διαμεμενηκέναι, πνευματικὸν ὑπάρχοντα.

Epiphanius, Panarion 28.1.7: 7 Jesus has suffered and risen again but the Christ who had come to him from above — that is, the thing which had descended in the form of a dove — flew away without suffering, and Jesus is not Christ [καὶ οὐ τὸν Ἰησοῦν εἶναι Χριστόν].

(If Cerinthus seems too slippery as an historical reference, just mentally replace it with the separationist idea expressed in this passage. But I will continue to use Cerinthus as a convenient gloss.)

Cerinthus.png
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It is not necessary to get a confession from Cerinthus himself on this point for our purposes, since what we are talking about is how one of his opponents could paint his views; if Epiphanius can characterize separationism in this manner, as a denial that Jesus is the Christ, then so can others.

The rest of the passages:

1 John 1.1-5: 1 What was from the beginning, what we have heard, what we have seen with our eyes, what we have looked at and touched with our hands, concerning the Word of Life — 2 and the life was revealed, and we have seen and testify and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was revealed to us — 3 what we have seen and heard we proclaim to you also, so that you too may have fellowship with us; and indeed our fellowship is with the Father, and with His Son Jesus Christ. 4 These things we write, so that our joy may be made complete. 5 This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all.

The Son is Jesus Christ. The combined name is important to our author, and will appear over and over, since it betokens a single entity over and against the Cerinthian pair of entities: a physical Jesus and a spiritual Christ descending into him and then ascending out of him.

1 John 2.1-2: 1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; 2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Again, the combined name is important, and it is the single entity, Jesus Christ the righteous (δίκαιον, singular), who is the propitiation for sins, implying that it is the single entity, Jesus Christ, who died (and not just Jesus after Christ departed from him).

1 John 2.21-23: 21 I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it, and because no lie is of the truth. 22 Who is the liar except the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the Antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son. 23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also.

To suggest that Jesus and Christ are two different and entirely separable entitities is to deny that Jesus is the Christ, as per Epiphanius. Rather, in that case, they remain two entities, one essentially possessing or inhabiting the other.

According to Cerinthus, Jesus preached the unknown Father, implying that now the Father can be known, and known quite apart from any unified concept of Jesus being the Son. Our author disagrees. If you deny the Son (that is, if you deny that the Son is precisely Jesus Christ, because Jesus is the Christ), then you have actually denied the Father.

1 John 2.23-24: 23 This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us. 24 The one who keeps His commandments remains in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He remains in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

The name of the Son is a combined one: Jesus Christ, not just one or the other.

1 John 4.2-3: 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God; 3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is that of the Antichrist, which you have heard is coming, and now it is already in the world.

2 John [1.]7: 7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the Antichrist.

Jesus Christ having come in the flesh stands in parallel with confessing Jesus in 1 John 4.2-3. It is the confession precisely of the Jesus element of the single entity that matters as the acid test, since no one denies that Christ is something special.

These parallel verses are the weakest link for the separationist hypothesis, but Jesus Christ having come in the flesh would stand, ex hypothesi, both in 1 John 4.2-3 and in 2 John [1.]7, in contradistinction to Jesus alone being of flesh (born of Joseph and Mary in the usual way, as Irenaeus expounds) while the Christ is spiritual and fleshless.

1 John 4.15: 15 Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God remains in him, and he in God.

Again, it is the confession precisely of Jesus as the Son of God that matters. Jesus Christ is the Son, but nobody denies this privilege to the Christ element; only the Jesus element is at issue in the dispute.

1 John 5.1: 1 Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father loves that born of Him.

Jesus is the Christ; they are the same entity. Christ did not merely inhabit Jesus like a spirit inhabits a body.

1 John 5.5-6: 5 Who is the one who overcomes the world but the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God? 6 This is the One who came by water and blood, Jesus Christ; not with the water only, but with the water and with the blood. It is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth.

Jesus, the Son of God, is Jesus Christ, the one who came both by water and by blood; that is, Jesus Christ, as a single entity, experienced both the baptism and the death; there was no separation of the two before the death. The wording implies that the opponents in view accepted that Jesus Christ came by the baptism, which is true of Cerinthus, since that is the event which fused them, but rejected that Jesus Christ came by death, which is also true of Cerinthus, since the Christ left Jesus behind before Jesus died alone.

I do not think there is any verse which does not succumb, and succumb pretty effortlessly, to the separationist hypothesis unless it is the statement, given twice, mentioned above as the weakest link (1 John 4.2-3; 2 John [1.]7). If that statement should be deemed too challenging to fix against Cerinthus, then why not just say that two different but equally offensive (in our author's estimation) opposing views are at stake? The one is the separationist idea of Cerinthus, and the other is the docetic idea combatted by the Ignatian epistles. (Robert M. Price suggests exactly this option somewhere.) Our author may be fighting on two fronts (or more than two: he also speaks against those who do not love their brother, those who sin continuously, those who love the world, and so on).
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Re: Jesus Mythicism & 1 John

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Ben C. Smith wrote: Tue Dec 01, 2020 9:26 pm
1 John 4.2-3: 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God; 3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is that of the Antichrist, which you have heard is coming, and now it is already in the world.

2 John [1.]7: 7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the Antichrist.

Jesus Christ having come in the flesh stands in parallel with confessing Jesus in 1 John 4.2-3. It is the confession precisely of the Jesus element of the single entity that matters as the acid test, since no one denies that Christ is something special.

These parallel verses are the weakest link for the separationist hypothesis, but Jesus Christ having come in the flesh would stand, ex hypothesi, both in 1 John 4.2-3 and in 2 John [1.]7, in contradistinction to Jesus alone being of flesh (born of Joseph and Mary in the usual way, as Irenaeus expounds) while the Christ is spiritual and fleshless.

It is relevant that there is a variant largely Latin reading in which 1 John 4:3 reads
and every spirit that divides LUEI Jesus is not from God; this is that of the Antichrist, which you have heard is coming, and now it is already in the world.
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Re: Jesus Mythicism & 1 John

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Irish1975 wrote: Tue Dec 01, 2020 3:44 pm This reading of 1 John is not convincing, because there are no obvious indications of later editing. The language is raw, unpolished, sometimes clumsily repetitive, but there is a unity of purpose and theme throughout.
I disagree on this point. Joseph Turmel argued that 1 John was a marcionite 'epistle' in the original version, and later catholicized. For example, in passages as this:

you have overcome the evil one

the 'evil one' figures also in the (original version of the) Fourth Gospel, and he is YHWH, the demiurge.

Hence the epistle of 1 John and proto-John were both marcionite in origin, and both catholicized and preserved by association to the name of 'John' (the same umbrella used to preserve the Book of Revelation).

Who wants to deny this fact, has to prove that proto-John is not marcionite, which is impossible.

ADDENDA
Note the singular 'coincidence' of having the Paraclete both in 1 John and proto-John.
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Re: Jesus Mythicism & 1 John

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i could imagine some early Christian community who is quite happy doing it's thing then along comes 1 John's group saying believe this believe that and we are the leaders, that's the attitude on display in 1 John and the same is found in Thessalonians - 'Take note of anyone that disagrees with us'. There was a power grab, or coup. 1 John is bold in claiming his opponents do not have the same spirit but are anti-Christ - get that wrong and you're blaspheming the spirit huh? worst sin ever, but 1 John is cool with that. i bet there were a few WTF moments back then
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Re: Jesus Mythicism & 1 John

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andrewcriddle wrote: Tue Dec 01, 2020 11:48 pm
Ben C. Smith wrote: Tue Dec 01, 2020 9:26 pm
1 John 4.2-3: 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God; 3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is that of the Antichrist, which you have heard is coming, and now it is already in the world.

2 John [1.]7: 7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the Antichrist.

Jesus Christ having come in the flesh stands in parallel with confessing Jesus in 1 John 4.2-3. It is the confession precisely of the Jesus element of the single entity that matters as the acid test, since no one denies that Christ is something special.

These parallel verses are the weakest link for the separationist hypothesis, but Jesus Christ having come in the flesh would stand, ex hypothesi, both in 1 John 4.2-3 and in 2 John [1.]7, in contradistinction to Jesus alone being of flesh (born of Joseph and Mary in the usual way, as Irenaeus expounds) while the Christ is spiritual and fleshless.
It is relevant that there is a variant largely Latin reading in which 1 John 4:3 reads
and every spirit that divides LUEI Jesus is not from God; this is that of the Antichrist, which you have heard is coming, and now it is already in the world.
Ehrman mentions that one in The Orthodox Corruption of Scripture, IIRC. My own sense is that this reading is probably not original, but it may show that later scribes or editors thought of something separationist when they read the rhetoric of 1 John.
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Re: Jesus Mythicism & 1 John

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Irish1975 wrote: Tue Dec 01, 2020 3:44 pm this epistle was originally mythicist
why not vice versa: the epistle combating the mythicists?
For example, so the prof Hector Avalos:

On the other hand, 1 John 4:3 states: “Every spirit which confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God.” The rest of this biblical epistle suggests that there were other self-described Christians who did not believe that Jesus had come in the flesh.

If the existence of a real flesh-and-blood Jesus was so well established, why were there Christians who did not believe in such a flesh-and-blood Jesus in the first place?

Yes, unless some new dramatic evidence is raised, we are at an impasse, historically.

So, who was the historical Jesus? My honest answer is that I don’t know.

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Re: Jesus Mythicism & 1 John

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Giuseppe wrote: Wed Dec 02, 2020 1:58 am
Irish1975 wrote: Tue Dec 01, 2020 3:44 pm This reading of 1 John is not convincing, because there are no obvious indications of later editing. The language is raw, unpolished, sometimes clumsily repetitive, but there is a unity of purpose and theme throughout.
I disagree on this point. Joseph Turmel argued that 1 John was a marcionite 'epistle' in the original version, and later catholicized.
But is there a specific textual basis for doubting 1 John's integrity?
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Re: Jesus Mythicism & 1 John

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davidmartin wrote: Wed Dec 02, 2020 3:34 am i could imagine some early Christian community who is quite happy doing it's thing then along comes 1 John's group saying believe this believe that and we are the leaders, that's the attitude on display in 1 John and the same is found in Thessalonians - 'Take note of anyone that disagrees with us'. There was a power grab, or coup. 1 John is bold in claiming his opponents do not have the same spirit but are anti-Christ - get that wrong and you're blaspheming the spirit huh? worst sin ever, but 1 John is cool with that. i bet there were a few WTF moments back then
Agree. It's an extremely angry, polemical text. Battle lines are being drawn. Like Galatians, it reflects extreme anger about an existing state of affairs in the church. It's not just a polite meditation on love with a dollop of speculative christology.
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Re: Jesus Mythicism & 1 John

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Irish1975 wrote: Wed Dec 02, 2020 3:10 pm
davidmartin wrote: Wed Dec 02, 2020 3:34 am i could imagine some early Christian community who is quite happy doing it's thing then along comes 1 John's group saying believe this believe that and we are the leaders, that's the attitude on display in 1 John and the same is found in Thessalonians - 'Take note of anyone that disagrees with us'. There was a power grab, or coup. 1 John is bold in claiming his opponents do not have the same spirit but are anti-Christ - get that wrong and you're blaspheming the spirit huh? worst sin ever, but 1 John is cool with that. i bet there were a few WTF moments back then
Agree. It's an extremely angry, polemical text. Battle lines are being drawn. Like Galatians, it reflects extreme anger about an existing state of affairs in the church. It's not just a polite meditation on love with a dollop of speculative christology.
haha yes although i will admit 1 John is a good source on the importance of love in early Christianity, it just doesn't seem to live up too well to what it says about it. the battle lines are drawn and there's little compromise... except a tiny bit toward 'the lady' in 2 John - here the same writer is scared to throw his full weight around and body slam all opponents but attempts to strike a conciliatory tone (and fails like a forced smile) because it's obvious the folks he disagrees with in 1 John are hobnobbing with her and he politely reminds her to kick them out. So the 1 John crowd are not completely dominant yet, a higher and earlier authority exists. 'The lady' is probably trying to patch things up but it's got way out of hand. Later when the 1 John crowd do take control they say 'there was no lady' but the jelly had already set in the mold before they could finish editing her out
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