What the genesis of the Muhammad myth can explain about the Jesus myth

[Giuseppe]

https://storage.googleapis.com/wzukuser ... 20Sept.pdf

By reading prof Karl-Heinz Ohlig, it seems that 'Muhammad' was before a Christological title, and only later it was applied to a 'Prophet of the Arabs" distinct from Jesus. This presupposes that a new invented entity was connected to a pre-existing attribute or epitet.

The Hymn of Philippians secures with a good degree of probability that 'Jesus' also was a title connected to a pre-existing angel and even then only after his resurrection.

Since there is nothing of new under the sun, I wonder if also in the case of Jesus, the name was usurped from a previous entity being connected with "YHWH" and with "salvation". The idea is different from thinking that Jesus is simply Joshua 2.0 (because in that case then the case of Jesus would be not comparable to the case of Muhammad).

[Giuseppe]

I remember vaguely about a contemporary English mythicist who wrote that in Qumran the expression "YHWH saves" have been found in a precise point, without connection to Jesus Christ.

[Secret Alias]

Muhammad = Paracletos = Menachem (dim. Mani cf. רַבִּי מָנִי https://www.sefaria.org/Berakhot.10b?ve ... 21&lang=en)

R Mani II was a fifth generation Amora c 380 CE mentioned mainly in the Jerusalem Talmud. He is so early his mention in the Jerusalem Talmud helps date the text. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbi_Mana_II

R Mani I was a contemporary of the Christian heretic with the same name/title (3rd century) and was a supporter of the Patriarchate, on very good terms with R. Judah II, the Patriarch of his day (see TJ Kilaim 8)

The parallel diminutive is Avi and Avraham https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avi

Note: Hegemonius makes clear Mani was a title. His real name was something else. If you read Paul in Syriac you see the building blocks of the use of Muhammad as a Christological title.

[Stuart]

Muhammad = Paracletos = Menachem (dim. Mani cf. רַבִּי מָנִי https://www.sefaria.org/Berakhot.10b?ve ... 21&lang=en)

I am having trouble finding what you are referring to. Can you quote the line I am looking for? Thanks

[Ben C. Smith]

Muhammad = Paracletos = Menachem (dim. Mani cf. רַבִּי מָנִי https://www.sefaria.org/Berakhot.10b?ve ... 21&lang=en)

I am having trouble finding what you are referring to. Can you quote the line I am looking for? Thanks

I think he is just referring to a rabbi named Mani:

Babylonian Talmud, Berakhot 10b: 10b .... With regard to our Mishnah, Rabbi Mani [רַבִּי מָנִי] said, “Greater is one who recites Shema at its appropriate time than one who engages in Torah study.” ....

Muhammed = Paraclete = Menaḥem appears to me to be related to the whole Messiah Menaḥem tradition (Sanhedrin 98b and other passages), but I am far, far from an expert on early Islam. Menaḥem = "comforter," a reasonable translation for παράκλητος.

[Secret Alias]

Avi diminutive Avraham https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/Abi
Mani diminutive Menachem
Beni or Bibi diminutive Benyamin(m)

Standard construction. I will add some more.

Google it. Common diminutive in modern and ancient Hebrew both of them.

[Secret Alias]

Archbishop Usher conjectured that it [Mani] was a form of Manaem or Menahem, which means Paraclete or Comforter; founding this conjecture on the fact that Sulpicius Severus calls the Israelitish king Menahem,2 Mane. Gataker supplements this idea by the conjecture that Mani took this name at his own instance, and in pursuance of his claim to be the Paraclete. http://www.tertullian.org/fathers2/NPNF ... -04-05.htm

https://books.google.com/books?id=nZYUA ... em&f=false

[Secret Alias]

On the Jews identifying the heretic Mani's name as a form of the Hebrew Menachem

also in the religious beliefs of many other sects , above all , in the teachings of Mani ( " Menahem , the Babylonian " or " Mani , the Persian ” of the Talmud )https://books.google.com/books?id=6iEgA ... A3oECAkQAg

[Secret Alias]

Here's the proof:

Mana , is a kinnui and abbreviation of Menahem https://books.google.com/books?id=4XXXA ... ve&f=false

Kinnui https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinnui# ... rew%20name.

More on Mani and Menachem https://books.google.com/books?id=9LtFA ... 22&f=false

Bockmuehl https://books.google.com/books?id=ESy1R ... on&f=false

Jonah leader of the synagogue of Tiberias

Among his sons was Menahem , who taught in Sepphoris and whose name is usually abbreviated to Rabbi Mana or Mani https://books.google.com/books?id=AI7XA ... AHoECAMQAg

[Giuseppe]

Are you saying that there is some connection with that Mani (founder of Manicheism) ?