Biblical Criticism & History Forum - earlywritings.com

Note that monogenes in proto-John is a polemical term against Jesus as "son of Mary".

It means that Jesus is the son only of God, and of God only.

The polemic is against who accuses that Jesus is son also of a woman, Mary, or, more probably the Woman sun-dressed of Revelation.

The problem between the Miriai of Mandeans and the Woman of Revelation is evident:

• the Miriai of Mandeans hates YHWH as all the Mandeans.

• the Woman of Revelation adores YHWH.

But Marcionites probably hated both the women:

• they hated Miriai of Mandeanism just as they hated John the Baptist

• they hated the Woman of Revelation.

Note that the sin against the Holy Spirit was the great sin of the Mandeans: they hated the holy spirit even more than YHWH.

Hence the Gospel Jesus has the Mandeans as polemical target, when he is made to say that the sin against the holy spirit can't be never forgiven, never!

The great problem of the Mandeans is that

• they were enemies of Marcion (who never loved John the Baptist)

• but they were also - with Marcion - enemies of YHWH.

Of the kind: the enemy of my enemy is my enemy, also.

You are insane. You live in a world wholly of your own creation.

The irony can't be unidirectional, sorry. You can't call me "stupid" (=ironically) and in the same thread call me "insane" (=seriously), only because I am searching for clues of intra-Christian sectarian rivalry in Gospel expressions as "Isn't he the son of Mary?"

Searching or inventing?

davidmartin wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 7:27 ami not read any Mandean writing that calls out YHWH only Jesus and a spirit called Ruha. Ruha i've seen mentioned but not YHWH

Well, as you probably know, Ruha is just a transliteration of the Hebrew/Aramaic word for "spirit." It is a feminine noun, which is how we get lines such as this one:


So far so good, but I have a wild thought and wonder what you might think of it.

What if this negative assessment of Ruha is a negative reaction to the notion of latter day Jewish and Christian prophets speaking by the Spirit? In other words, what if the Mandaeans once shared a religious culture with people who eventually started speaking in the spirit?


But the Mandaeans preferred to stick with traditional rites and rituals, and to them Ruha (= the Spirit) became synonymous with crazy Jewish and Christian (and other?) prophets associated with up and coming movements of which the Mandaeans did not approve. Is there any possibility in that direction?

Ben is reluctant to take the extreme consequence: if the Mandeans rejected the Spirit of God, then they rejected the God of which that spirit comes from. They rejected YHWH as false god who sent an evil spirit.

Secret Alias wrote: ↑Wed Sep 23, 2020 6:51 am

Lindzbarski says the contrary, sorry.

Your debate with another board member has almost allowed you to change the subject. Your citation of Lindzbarski DOES NOT support your interpretation. What he says in French is:

1. Miriai MIGHT come from Mary (Maria est peut-être le même nom que Miriaï
2. Miriai is used by the Mandaeans to designate/denote the sect of John the Baptist (par lequel les Mandéens désignent la secte de Jean-Baptiste)

(1) is only a maybe = 'peut-etre'. (2) is determined to be a certainty. But even with that you can't go from that to what you propose. Bye.

What Lidzbarski in fact said is





In one story the mother of Mirjai said to her (p. 124, last line, - p. 125, lines 1-7):