Hello maryhelena --
I wanted to take a moment to second your comments. See below. I agree with the Thesis even if we disagree on the details as we shall probably see. What we get in the NT is Hasmonean History and, though it was thought to be hidden, is still discernable.
maryhelena wrote: ↑Sun Aug 23, 2020 2:43 amPerhaps Bermejo-Rubio would do well to consider Hasmonean history as a backdrop to the gospel story.
The problem is that you must provide a "hook" that the reader may understand and then consider. "Existence is not a predicate saith Kant" and when you rewrite a character with a different name, "Existence" transfers to the new character and, in this case, the old Historical Figure is lost. To say nothing of rewritten History being undertaken in a different Language. As always, see the automatic Word-Play between "Immar"/"Immer" that is lost once "Lamb" has been rendered in the Greek. GJohn absolutely falls on his face here. His "Lamb of God" is a a Transvalued creature. "Immar-Yah" is Semitic and goes back a thousand years prior to this in Sumer (See: Pettinato,
Ebla) - as does "You must be born again". "Amargi" (See: Kramer,
History begins at Sumer.)
In that history he will find many a 'zealot' ready to take up arms to free the land of Israel from Roman domination. He might even find that the statement of Cassius Dio of considerable interest.
Roman historian Cassius Dio says that he was crucified and records in his Roman History: "These people [the Jews] Antony entrusted to a certain Herod to govern; but Antigonus he bound to a cross and scourged, a punishment no other king had suffered at the hands of the Romans, and so slew him.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antigonus ... of%20Judea.
True again. Dio has another importance in the NT History: Epitome 64 carries a Proto-Eucharist story with just the right flavor.
A linkage of the gospel story to Hasmonean history allows the Jesus figure to be view as reflecting that history. Not just the history of Antigonus but Hasmonean history in general. It is that history that has been side-lined in the gospel story.
Yes, yes and as a change of pace, yes. I believe I can find a large amount of Hasmonean History in the NT and that level of discovery has been a somewhat bitter point of disagreement between us. Perhaps better to merely agree with you here. The point, however, is still important.
Yes, the NT puts the focus on spiritual matters, the kingdom of god as heavenly (intellectual, philosophical). If that NT intellectual/philosophical kingdom, with it's neither Jew nor Greek, was to move on, as it were, it had to side-line the nationalistic elements of Hasmonean history.
Here is a moment of discovery: If "Jesus" could be created and Transvalued what else could suffer that same fate?
The Kingdom of Heaven (Moffatt: "Realm of Heaven") has been Transvalued from a Real, Physical Place into "Somewhere, Over the Rainbow".
Matthew 23: 13 (RSV, then Moffatt):
[13] "But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because you shut the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither enter yourselves, nor allow those who would enter to go in.
[13] Woe to you, you impious scribes and Pharisees ! you shut the Realm of heaven in men's faces;
you neither enter yourselves, nor will you let those enter who are on the point of entering.
Scribes and Pharisees were real, physical people, not Spirit-Beings. The door to the Realm of Heaven is being shut in
MEN's faces. Notice a subtle point brought out by Moffatt: There are those who are "...at the point of entering" The Realm of Heaven and they are prevented from doing so.
This is the description of a Physical Event. I believe it was a very
VIOLENT event.
Thus the conflict within the gospel story of whether it's literary Jesus figure reflects political revolutionary elements or was simply an itinerate man of peace. Consequently, if it's christian origins that interests one - then the 'zealot' Jesus has to be faced.
True and that Zealot was not a savior/god but Hasmonean.
Take a moment plz everyone and consider, at least, maryhelena's position.
CW