No, we declare God’s wisdom, a mystery that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began
(1 Corinthians 2:7)
This means that the interval of time between the creation and the present time coincides with the "age" of the rulers who are referred as not knowing said mystery.
You are making some wild extrapolation here. I already pointed out to you that "this age" can mean "these present times". Another example:
Gal 1:4 "who gave himself for our sins to deliver us from the present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father;"
Notice:
1 Co 2:8 "None of the rulers of this age understood this; for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory."
"The rulers of this age" are the ones of "the present evil age". They are also the ones who crucified Jesus "who gave himself for our sins". So "this age" is the one of the crucifixion and times prior to, at, and after it (at least up to Paul's times).
Note that Paul raises a crescendo when he says:
We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing.
The mystery is so hidden by God that not even the rulers of this age can know it. This means that Paul is open to the possibility that the rulers could know the mystery: after all, if they existed before the creation of time, then they could know the plans of God. But if Paul cares to deny explicitly the possibility of this knowledge by them, then he is going already to concede that the rulers were supranatural beings and as such potentially able a priori to know similar mysteries
I do not see here again why "this age" (twice) cannot mean "these present times". Please note:
1 Co 3:18 "Let no one deceive himself. If any one among you thinks that he is wise in this age, let him become a fool that he may become wise."
The "wisdom of this age" (1 Co 2:8) is the one that some (in Paul's times) profess to have (but are wrong because this is not the wisdom of God).
Bernard Muller wrote: ↑Sat Oct 31, 2020 2:22 pm
to Giuseppe,
Bernard Muller wrote:
There is nothing here to indicate Belial is a Satanic figure and co-ruler of this age.
are you ignoring the "poor στοιχεῖα" adored by the same Judaizers (=adorers of YHWH and his Torah) mentioned in Galatians?
What's that? Give the verse number. What is the connection about what I wrote?
Galatians 4:9:
But now after ye have known God, or rather are known by God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements unto which ye desire again to be in bondage?
Bernard Muller wrote: ↑Sat Oct 31, 2020 3:25 pm
"The rulers of this age" are the ones of "the present evil age".
not only: they are the ones who rule "the present evil age". "This age" is "evil" because it is ruled by them. The innocent Romans can't be such rulers because in Romans 13:1-7 Paul invites the believers to obey them.
Giuseppe wrote: ↑Sat Oct 31, 2020 8:46 amIt is evident that by 'this age' he means the entire period from the creation until to present time: Romans didn't rule the earth when Adam was expelled from Eden.
Does "this age" include the times of King David and King Solomon as well? Did demons rule at that time also, in your opinion?
Giuseppe wrote: ↑Sat Oct 31, 2020 9:54 pm"This age" is "evil" because it is ruled by them. The innocent Romans can't be such rulers because in Romans 13:1-7 Paul invites the believers to obey them.
Rom 13:1-7 doesn't mention Romans. Why do you think that Paul only means Romans there?
GakuseiDon wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 1:01 am
Does "this age" include the times of King David and King Solomon as well? Did demons rule at that time also, in your opinion?
yes, obviously. Paul adores YHWH but he hates the flesh and the world and all the history of the world.
Rom 13:1-7 doesn't mention Romans. Why do you think that Paul only means Romans there?
Simple: because Paul doesn't add 'of this age', there. If he had added that genitive objective, then I would have easily seen demons also there. Paul would be saying that the souls of the believers have to give to demonic gate-keepers their due (in the form of magical passwords), during their ascension to upper heavens.
Note that I think, following James Barlow, that in the original Ascension of Isaiah, the demons killed Jesus because he didn't reveal the magical passwords, differently from what he did in the previous heavens.
GakuseiDon wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 1:01 am
Does "this age" include the times of King David and King Solomon as well? Did demons rule at that time also, in your opinion?
yes, obviously. Paul adores YHWH but he hates the flesh and the world and all the history of the world.
Rom 13:1-7 doesn't mention Romans. Why do you think that Paul only means Romans there?
Simple: because Paul doesn't add 'of this age', there.
So, when Paul writes in Rom 13:1: "Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God", Paul only talks about the Romans? He doesn't mean the Parthian Empire, or other non-Roman rulers of the time? Those powers are not ordained by God? Also earlier rulers like Alexander, etc -- Paul thinks that God didn't have the power to ordain those rulers? So only the Romans were ordained by God?
But now after ye have known God, or rather are known by God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements unto which ye desire again to be in bondage?
So, Paul called "the weak and beggarly elements" the gods that Paul's Galatians worshipped prior to their conversion. Paul said he is afraid his converts would turn to these gods again.
I don't see here heavenly demons under Satan's authority.
GakuseiDon wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 1:01 am
Does "this age" include the times of King David and King Solomon as well? Did demons rule at that time also, in your opinion?
yes, obviously. Paul adores YHWH but he hates the flesh and the world and all the history of the world.
Rom 13:1-7 doesn't mention Romans. Why do you think that Paul only means Romans there?
Simple: because Paul doesn't add 'of this age', there.
So, when Paul writes in Rom 13:1: "Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God", Paul only talks about the Romans? He doesn't mean the Parthian Empire, or other non-Roman rulers of the time? Those powers are not ordained by God? Also earlier rulers like Alexander, etc -- Paul thinks that God didn't have the power to ordain those rulers? So only the Romans were ordained by God?
if he addressed ROMANS from ROME, he couldn't invite them to obey the mortal enemies of Rome in Orient: the Parhians. At least, not insofar Nero had sent Corbulo in Syria to defend the borders with the Parthia.
Bernard Muller wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 7:39 am
to Giuseppe,
Galatians 4:9:
But now after ye have known God, or rather are known by God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements unto which ye desire again to be in bondage?
So, Paul called "the weak and beggarly elements" the gods that Paul's Galatians worshipped prior to their conversion. Paul said he is afraid his converts would turn to these gods again.
I don't see here heavenly demons under Satan's authority.
Cordially, Bernard
the "the weak and beggarly elements" were not the Pagan gods of Galatia. They were the Jewish angels connected with the planets and adored by the Jews and Judaizers of Galatia. The same angels who gave the Law. They were PLANETARY Archons who rule this age.
Bernard Muller wrote:
"The rulers of this age" are the ones of "the present evil age".
not only: they are the ones who rule "the present evil age". "This age" is "evil" because it is ruled by them. The innocent Romans can't be such rulers because in Romans 13:1-7 Paul invites the believers to obey them.
Yes, Paul asked the Christians of Rome to consider the Roman authorities (as a fair police) servant of God in Ro 13:1-7. That does not mean any (present times) evil age would be eradicated by them.
