Giuseppe wrote: ↑Sun Dec 29, 2019 9:52 pm
Charles Wilson wrote: ↑Sun Dec 29, 2019 7:22 pm
John 1: 2 - 3 (RSV):
[2] He was in the beginning with God;
[3] all things were made through him, and without him was not anything made that was made.
He does not have to "Overcome" the World. He created it.
These verses quoted above by you are Catholic interpolations. In their place, the original (marcionite) verse was:
In the beginning there was the Light...
Charles, seriously, the enumeration of
you among
the so-called modern mythicists is one of the greatest injustices of this world.
Thank you for your very kind words, Giuseppe. Perhaps you can explain the development from "Catholic Interpolation" to the development of Gnosticism as you see it. I even gave you a huge opening with the John 1 verses and you didn't see it or chose to ignore it.
Of course the John verses are Catholic. The Judaic Culture was alien to the Romans and they fashioned the New Religion around the Ascension of the Flavians using the History they found. This, however, is where I believe you could do some good. The Judaic View had all that the Judaic Society needed ("Outhouse...Paging outhouse...") . God had already spoken to them and given them their Rites. The Romans had to show that Vespasian was chosen to transfer the choices of rulership from the Julio-Claudians to the Flavians. This they did.
It proved insufficient. The New Religion had to be changed. Again, the Baptism of John is changed to the Baptism of the Holy Spirit before more than even a few have heard of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. Historically, this matches up nicely with the deification of Titus and the Treachery that followed with Domitian.
Your opening with Gnosticism comes with the death of Domitian, when the knowledge of events of the recent past do not match-up anymore with Historical Events. "We have this brand new Religion that is already a success. How can we modify it so we can keep it going?"
Giuseppe, I'll accept your "Celestial Crucifixion" if you can ground it with the developments of 2nd Century Roman History. This "Crucifixion" is derivative of a developing Roman Bureaucracy trying to find, then mandate, a new Orthodoxy. It could not be from a Judaic Culture. Find these developing links and YOU'LL be the Respected Historicist.
CW