The crucifixion as form of death derived from the baptism of the god Jesus

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Giuseppe
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Re: The crucifixion as form of death derived from the baptism of the god Jesus

Post by Giuseppe » Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:23 am

Here Jesus connected the reason of the his descent on the earth with the his immersion into Abyss of Death:
Luke 12:49-50
49 “I have come to bring fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled! 50 But I have a baptism to undergo, and what constraint I am under until it is completed!

The origin of the Eucharist could be the same connection cup/baptism:

Mark 10:35-45
35 Then James and John, the sons of Zebedee, came to him. “Teacher,” they said, “we want you to do for us whatever we ask.”
36 “What do you want me to do for you?” he asked.
37 They replied, “Let one of us sit at your right and the other at your left in your glory.”
38 “You don’t know what you are asking,” Jesus said. “Can you drink the cup I drink or be baptized with the baptism I am baptized with?
39 “We can,” they answered.
Jesus said to them, “You will drink the cup I drink and be baptized with the baptism I am baptized with, 40 but to sit at my right or left is not for me to grant. These places belong to those for whom they have been prepared.”
41 When the ten heard about this, they became indignant with James and John. 42 Jesus called them together and said, “You know that those who are regarded as rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their high officials exercise authority over them. 43 Not so with you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant, 44 and whoever wants to be first must be slave of all. 45 For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”

Jesus doesn't predict their crucifixion, but their baptism as form of their future Death and resurrection.

As the god, so the followers of the god.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

Giuseppe
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Re: The crucifixion as form of death derived from the baptism of the god Jesus

Post by Giuseppe » Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:31 am

Giuseppe wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:23 am
Here Jesus connected the reason of the his descent on the earth with the his immersion into Abyss of Death:
Luke 12:49-50
49 “I have come to bring fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled! 50 But I have a baptism to undergo, and what constraint I am under until it is completed!

This explains the artificial tendentious (Judaizing?) distinction and even antithesis between the baptism by fire and the baptism by water in the prophecy of John the Baptist.
"I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

(Matthew 3:11)

Originally, the baptism by fire coincided with the baptism by water: Jesus gives the fire (salvation, immortality, gnosis) only by drowning himself into Abyss of Water.

Since Jesus couldn't die twice (at his baptism and on Golgotha), then he had to receive only a mere baptism by a banal Baptizer (John, co-opted ad hoc) while he had to give salvation only on Golgotha.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

Giuseppe
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Re: The crucifixion as form of death derived from the baptism of the god Jesus

Post by Giuseppe » Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:41 am

But then this explains why in Marcion's Gospel Jesus descends in Capernaum, allegorizing, per Heracleon, the Hell/Hades/Sheol.

He "dies" by descending to hell, then there he finds John the Baptist and all the prophets of the OT.

Since in Sheol the prophets of the demiurge fear that Jesus was tempting themselves in the name of the demiurge himself, they, John in primis, wanted to remain in Sheol. Hence Jesus ascended from the Sheol having freed with himself only the souls of the sodomites, Cain, Amalekites, and all the victims of the bastard demiurge.

When he ascends from Sheol, he comes on earth (he doesn't ascend directly to heaven). On earth, he finds the followers of John the Baptist, the idiotic Pillars, who believe him be John redivivus.

The original Gospel ended at the Transfiguration, who was the original celestial crucifixion in outer space hallucinated by only the idiotic Pillars, immediately after the Eucharist.

The original two thieves crucified with Jesus were Moses and Elijah, blaming Jesus in the name of the bastard demiurge. They were crucified with Jesus since by being crucified, Jesus crucified the Torah of the demiurge.

...having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross

(Colossians 2:14)
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

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MrMacSon
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Re: The crucifixion as form of death derived from the baptism of the god Jesus

Post by MrMacSon » Sun Nov 10, 2019 2:17 pm

Giuseppe wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 5:51 am
I will ignore in this thread any reference to Egypt because if the mythicism was left in the hands of the likes of Acharya, I would be a historicist.
That's^ illogical, in several ways.
Giuseppe wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 6:12 am
Please don't say idiocies. Christianity is a Jewish thing, not an Egyptian thing. I don't raise questions for you. Go to an astrotheological forum if you like to talk about Egyptian bullshit. Already I despise the Jewish god. Even more so I despise the Egyptian gods.
Joseph D.L. was right to post as he did, -
Joseph D. L. wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 5:24 am
In Egypt, the whole process of death, purification, and rebirth/resurrection was held as singular. So Osiris's death in the Nile was his actually his purification; his entombment in the sycamore was actually his incubation. Plutarch even says that the immersion of Osiris in the Nile was both his death and rebirth. His entombment and his exhumation.

Baptism was just a way Christians could partake in Christ's death without actually needing to die.
and Acts 7.22, -

And Moses was instructed in all the wisdom of the Egyptians, and he was mighty in his words and deeds.


Moreover, re -
Giuseppe wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 7:05 am

The Jesus Legend was a gentile Gnostic thing.
.
-- Gentiles would have included followers of Egyptian mystery religions, which were spreading and growing throughout the eastern Mediterranean in the 1st and 2nd centuries AD/CE.


And regarding -
Giuseppe wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 4:48 am
... under the hypothesis that the Odes of Solomon preceded even the epistles of Paul ...
-- Ode 4 seems to discuss the closing of the temple at Leontopolis in Egypt.

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Re: The crucifixion as form of death derived from the baptism of the god Jesus

Post by Ben C. Smith » Sun Nov 10, 2019 2:50 pm

MrMacSon wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 2:17 pm
Ode 4 seems to discuss the closing of the temple at Leontopolis in Egypt.
When did that temple close?
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MrMacSon
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Re: The crucifixion as form of death derived from the baptism of the god Jesus

Post by MrMacSon » Sun Nov 10, 2019 3:02 pm

Ben C. Smith wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 2:50 pm
When did that temple close?

It was destroyed in 73 C.E. on the orders of Titus or Vespasian ([Josephus War], 7.421), who feared that it might become the focus of further revolt after the destruction of the Temple of Jerusalem in 70 C.E.

-- according to https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/onias-temple-of


It was closed either by the governor of Egypt, Lupus, or by his successor, Paulinus, about three years after the destruction of the Temple at Jerusalem; and the sacrificial gifts, or rather the interior furnishings, were confiscated for the treasury of Vespasian ("B. J." vii. 10, § 4),

-- according to http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/artic ... eontopolis
Last edited by MrMacSon on Sun Nov 10, 2019 3:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Ben C. Smith
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Re: The crucifixion as form of death derived from the baptism of the god Jesus

Post by Ben C. Smith » Sun Nov 10, 2019 3:06 pm

MrMacSon wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 3:02 pm
Ben C. Smith wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 2:50 pm
When did that temple close?

It was destroyed in 73 C.E. on the orders of Titus or Vespasian ([Joseehus War], 7.421), who feared that it might become the focus of further revolt after the destruction of the Temple of Jerusalem in 70 C.E.

-- according to https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/onias-temple-of


It was closed either by the governor of Egypt, Lupus, or by his successor, Paulinus, about three years after the destruction of the Temple at Jerusalem; and the sacrificial gifts, or rather the interior furnishings, were confiscated for the treasury of Vespasian ("B. J." vii. 10, § 4),

-- according to http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/artic ... eontopolis
I thought it was during the war with Rome. Thank you for confirming.
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MrMacSon
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Re: The crucifixion as form of death derived from the baptism of the god Jesus

Post by MrMacSon » Sun Nov 10, 2019 3:12 pm

It's interesting how common names traditionally associated with high priests come up in the narrative accounts of this temple, Yeshua/Yehoshua, Jozadek, Zerubabbel, and various disputes among them, -

.
The Jewish Temple in the Land of Onias at Leontopolis in Egypt

Near to the ancient ruins of the royal residence of the Pharaoh Shoshenq I, the first ruler of the 22nd dynasty in 952 BCE, a temple to the God of Israel was built. This Pharaoh Shoshenq I many archeologists believe was the biblical Pharaoh Shishak that invaded Jerusalem and looted the Temple of Solomon of many of his splendid furnishings after the death of King Solomon.

Now eight hundred years later, the great, great, great grandfather of the High Priest Yeshua III, moved his entire family to Egypt for he and his family had been denied the hereditarial divinely appointed right of assuming the position of the high priest of Israel. Onias III, the great grandson of Simon I the Just (Tzaddik), was the last legitimate non-Hellenist high priest, that was the documented descendant of the High Priest of the Israelites, Aaron, through the lineage of Zadok ...

It was the year 164 BCE and Onias V (not Menelaus as Onias IV) became the first high priest that was denied the office of the high priest by an outside imperial ruler. It was Lysias, the Imperial Vice-Regent for the Syrian king, Antiochus V Eupator (164-162 BCE) that deprived Onias V this esteemed post. He gave the role of the high priest to Alcimus (163-159 BCE), a descendant of Eniachim, the brother of Jozadak, the exiled priest in Babylon and father of Yehoshua II, (Jesus II), the first high priest of the Temple of Zerubabbel. We ask, what was the problem? Eniachim was the brother to Jozadak the high priest and therefore he was not the oldest son and legitimate heir to the throne of the high priest. The high priest designate, Onias V, escaped from Jerusalem and took his family to Egypt. For the first time in Hebrew history, a foreign ruler had intervened in the hereditarial succession of the high priest of Israel, and denied the accession of the Onias V, to rule in his father, Onias III’s place.

There upon an island in the marshy Delta of the Nile River, the high priest designate, Onias V placed the mark where the Temple of the Lord would be built that would rival the temple in Jerusalem. It was here where the Nile River meets the Egyptian Delta and spreads like a mighty fan northward before entering the Mediterranean Sea, Onias V settled his family in the Nome or District of Heliopolis. Nearby were the ruins of the ancient Egyptian Temple of Bubastis where they began to build their temple.

The ancient Egyptian Temple of Bubastis was a sacred and ancient temple even in the days of 163 BCE. It was dedicated to the 2000 year old cult of the feline goddess, Bastet, called the “Lady of the East”

http://www.biblesearchers.com/yahshua/d ... eontopolis


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Ben C. Smith
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Re: The crucifixion as form of death derived from the baptism of the god Jesus

Post by Ben C. Smith » Sun Nov 10, 2019 3:18 pm

MrMacSon wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 2:17 pm
And regarding -
Giuseppe wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 4:48 am
... under the hypothesis that the Odes of Solomon preceded even the epistles of Paul ...
-- Ode 4 seems to discuss the closing of the temple at Leontopolis in Egypt.
Ode 6 may refer to the destruction of the temple:

Odes of Solomon 6.8 (Harris): 8 For there went forth a stream, and became a river great and broad; it swept away everything, and broke up and carried away the Temple. [Footnote: The translation which would [come out as] “it swept everything, broke up (everything) and brought (everything) to the temple” is the less probable....]

Odes of Solomon 6.8 (Charlesworth): 8 For there went forth a stream, and it became a river great and broad; indeed, it carried away everything, and it shattered, and brought (it) to the Temple. [Footnote: Or, “Indeed it carried away everything, and it shattered, and carried away the Temple.”]

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Re: The crucifixion as form of death derived from the baptism of the god Jesus

Post by MrMacSon » Sun Nov 10, 2019 4:20 pm

Ben C. Smith wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 3:18 pm

Ode 6 may refer to the destruction of the temple:

Odes of Solomon 6.8 (Harris): 8 For there went forth a stream, and became a river great and broad; it swept away everything, and broke up and carried away the Temple. [Footnote: The translation which would [come out as] “it swept everything, broke up (everything) and brought (everything) to the temple” is the less probable....]

Odes of Solomon 6.8 (Charlesworth): 8 For there went forth a stream, and it became a river great and broad; indeed, it carried away everything, and it shattered, and brought (it) to the Temple. [Footnote: Or, “Indeed it carried away everything, and it shattered, and carried away the Temple.”]

Considering the The Jewish Temple [of the Lord] in Leontopolis in Egypt, in the land of Onias, was built upon an island in the marshy Egyptian Delta of the Nile River, that'd likely be a reference to it ...

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