The Judaizers would have favored the idea of an earthly Messiah

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Giuseppe
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Re: The Judaizers would have favored the idea of an earthly Messiah

Post by Giuseppe »

...Continue from the previous post....
neilgodfrey wrote: Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:24 am If you re-read Galatians 3 I think you will find that that's not the reason Paul called the Galatians foolish. He explained at length why he called them foolish and it had nothing at all to do with images of the crucifixion.
it has something to do with earthly images of the crucifixion derived from OT scriptures. Even by doing so, the Galatians are materializing the Christ in the interest of the Judaizers.
I have described this point here:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5542#p102018
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.
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neilgodfrey
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Re: The Judaizers would have favored the idea of an earthly Messiah

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Giuseppe wrote: Wed Oct 16, 2019 8:59 pm Neil, GPeter's gigantic Risen Jesus may be a coincidence, so the Gigantic Jesus and sister of Elkasai. But what about:

1 Corinthians 2:10-11 is describing something of very giant in physical terms (in the eyes, obviously, of Paul): . . . .
I am not disputing that heavenly beings are big, that they take on a gigantic stature. My point was about the use of this feature to buttress an argument: compare - a man has two legs, Jesus has a big stature ....
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neilgodfrey
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Re: The Judaizers would have favored the idea of an earthly Messiah

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Giuseppe, you will probably love this:

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals ... 959CE002B9
Although the term cosmos in Romans is largely used in a neutral fashion to refer to humanity, as has been demonstrated by Edward Adams, the cosmos is nevertheless the location of a conflict between God and anti-God powers, most prominently the powers of Sin and Death. This conflict comes into view in Paul's repeated use of the language drawn from the arenas of slavery, statecraft and the military (especially in Romans 5–8). In the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ, Sin and Death are themselves defeated (5:12–21; 6:8–11), but they are not yet destroyed. The conflict continues in the present as comes to expression in Romans 8, where Paul claims that the whole of creation (both human and non-human) waits for deliverance. And the conflict continues especially in 8:31–9, with its strong assertions that no power is powerful enough to separate humanity from its rightful Lord, assertions that would be unnecessary apart from the conviction that there are indeed anti-God powers whose goal is to reclaim human lives. Paul's cosmology, then, is less concerned with the order and wonder of the cosmos than with its need of redemption, a redemption begun but not yet complete. Cosmology and soteriology are inextricably connected to one another.
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Giuseppe
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Re: The Judaizers would have favored the idea of an earthly Messiah

Post by Giuseppe »

neilgodfrey wrote: Thu Oct 17, 2019 2:17 am
Giuseppe wrote: Wed Oct 16, 2019 8:59 pm Neil, GPeter's gigantic Risen Jesus may be a coincidence, so the Gigantic Jesus and sister of Elkasai. But what about:

1 Corinthians 2:10-11 is describing something of very giant in physical terms (in the eyes, obviously, of Paul): . . . .
I am not disputing that heavenly beings are big, that they take on a gigantic stature. My point was about the use of this feature to buttress an argument: compare - a man has two legs, Jesus has a big stature ....
Note that also Robert M. Price talks about a giant-like Jesus filling the universe, during the act itself of the crucifixion (not only before or after).

https://books.google.it/books?redir_esc ... nt&f=false

Note also that the Parable of Sower was interpreted by the Naassenes just as this primordial sacrifice of the Primal Man, dismembered in a lot of disiepta membra (the seeds of the parable) by the "Sower" (=the demiurge or god of the Jews) at the origin of the world (remember about Rev 13:8).

So the apologist Orosius reports the Gnostic interpretation of the Parable of Sower:

In it [the heretic work Memoria apostolorum] the Savior is seen to be secretly questioned by the disciples and showing from the Gospel parable which begins “The sower went out to sow” that the sower was not good. It claims that, if he had been good, he would not have been negligent, scattering his seed neither beside the path, nor in stony soil, nor on uncultivated ground. It wants this sower to be understood as the one who scatters captured souls in various bodies as he wishes.

https://books.google.it/books?id=Z3DYAA ... er&f=false
Giuseppe wrote: Tue Jan 22, 2019 6:55 am Mark 4:3 :
ἐξῆλθεν ὁ σπείρων τοῦ σπεῖραι

The act of scattering seeds is equivalent not only to dismember, but also to make empty a hand that was full in first place. THe concept of Pleroma (divine Fulness) is in view implicitly, here. This remembers the hymn to Philippians, where who “emptied himself” is Jesus son of YHWH, just as in the Parable of Sower who is emptying the his hand (by the act itself of sowing) is the Sower.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.
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