Yes, that is true. I recently tracked down one of the main Talmudic passages related to that issue: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2575&p=100511#p100511. It is part of a section which also deals with Nakdimon ben Gorion.John2 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2019 2:20 pmRabbinic writings echo Josephus though.Ben C. Smith wrote: ↑Wed Sep 18, 2019 7:19 pmThe thing is, Josephus may have motives for unduly playing up the influence of his "Fourth Philosophy" upon the nation, much in the same way that political parties today have motives for playing up the words and deeds of the more extreme factions among their rivals. Since Josephus is virtually our only source for whatever Jewish motives lay behind the war, we are in an unenviable position, and I do not want to be too quick to believe things that Josephus may be telling us tendentiously. But I have a lot more studying to do in that regard.
In the Talmud, the Zealots are the non-religious (not following the religious leaders), and are also called the Biryonim (בריונים) meaning "boorish", "wild", or "ruffians", and are condemned for their aggression, their unwillingness to compromise to save the survivors of besieged Jerusalem, and their blind militarism against the rabbis' opinion to seek treaties for peace. However, according to one body of tradition, the rabbis initially supported the revolt up until the Zealots initiated a civil war, at which point all hope of resisting the Romans was deemed impossible. The Zealots are further blamed for having contributed to the demise of Jerusalem and the Second Temple, and of ensuring Rome's retributions and stranglehold on Judea. According to the Babylonian Talmud, Gittin:56b, the Biryonim destroyed decades' worth of food and firewood in besieged Jerusalem to force the Jews to fight the Romans out of desperation. This event directly led to the escape of Johanan ben Zakai out of Jerusalem, who met Vespasian, a meeting which led to the foundation of the Academy of Jamnia which produced the Mishnah which led to the survival of rabbinical Judaism. The Zealots advocated violence against the Romans, their Jewish collaborators, and the Sadducees, by raiding for provisions and other activities to aid their cause.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zealots#In_the_Talmud
No problem. I like some of his other stuff, but his ideas about messianism just add complications where none existed, nor should exist, the main cause being that he defines what a Messiah is first, before allowing the ancient authors to tell us what they think a Messiah is; it is rather similar to prescriptivism versus descriptivism in lexical projects.And thanks for the Charlesworth feedback!
I much prefer Matthew Novenson's approach in Christ Among the Messiahs. I have this book physically on my extra desk right now, having read it only quite recently, and have found myself agreeing with pretty much everything he says; plus, he adds insights into the matter which I had never considered. Highly recommended.