1 Cor 2:6-8 talks about a crucifixion happened "before time began"

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Giuseppe
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1 Cor 2:6-8 talks about a crucifixion happened "before time began"

Post by Giuseppe »

1 Corinthians 2:6-8:
We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. 7 No, we declare God’s wisdom, a mystery that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. 8 None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory

What was "before time began"? The "wisdom"? Or the "mystery"?

It seems that the "wisdom" and the "mystery" are not one and the same thing.

If the "mystery" and the "wisdom" are respectively the crucifixion of the Son and the mere knowledge of it (two distinct things), then it is the crucifixion itself that happened "before time began".

In other terms, the "wisdom" assumes an object of that knowledge or wisdom, precisely a "mystery", that is happened before that someone had (or: will have) that "wisdom" or knowledge about it.

Hence, since none of the Archons understood this "wisdom" about that "mystery", they crucified Jesus.

The chronological sequence is:

1) the mystery: the Archons crucified Jesus.

2) the wisdom/knowledge of that mystery: it is hidden in God.

3) "the time began": the world was created.

4) Paul and the apostles knew that wisdom. Only them and only now. The Archons are still in the ignorance.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.
Giuseppe
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Re: 1 Cor 2:6-8 talks about a crucifixion happened "before time began"

Post by Giuseppe »

Hence the verse 6 says that the wisdom is not relative to an event in the time (the various aeons by which the earthly time is divided):

Σοφίαν δὲ λαλοῦμεν ἐν τοῖς τελείοις· σοφίαν δὲ οὐ τοῦ αἰῶνος τούτου, οὐδὲ τῶν ἀρχόντων τοῦ αἰῶνος τούτου, τῶν καταργουμένων

The verse 7 explains that the wisdom is hidden in a mystery "before the various aeons", before the earthly time, hence the meaning is that the wisdom is relative to that mystery where the wisdom is hidden before the his revelation in the present time, before even the creation of the world.

ἀλλὰ λαλοῦμεν θεοῦ σοφίαν ἐν μυστηρίῳ, τὴν ἀποκεκρυμμένην, ἣν προώρισεν ὁ θεὸς πρὸ τῶν αἰώνων εἰς δόξαν ἡμῶν·

In the verse 8, Paul specifies that they are the Archons "of this aeon", to crucify Jesus without knowing that wisdom. Why did Paul specify "of this aeon"?
ἣν οὐδεὶς τῶν ἀρχόντων τοῦ αἰῶνος τούτου ἔγνωκεν, εἰ γὰρ ἔγνωσαν, οὐκ ἂν τὸν κύριον τῆς δόξης ἐσταύρωσαν

The reason is now more clear: insofar they were Rulers of the earthly time (from the time of the creation of the world until the end of the world) they didn't know nothing about that wisdom. In virtue of the verse 6, too.

In conclusion, it is a veiled way by Paul to say that Jesus was crucified by the Archons before the creation of the world.

The opposition is between the wisdom in the space-time and the wisdom that is before the space-time.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.
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Jax
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Re: 1 Cor 2:6-8 talks about a crucifixion happened "before time began"

Post by Jax »

And if 1 Corinthians 2:6-8 is not Paul what then?
andrewcriddle
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Re: 1 Cor 2:6-8 talks about a crucifixion happened "before time began"

Post by andrewcriddle »

The crucifixion of Christ by the rulers of this age can only happen "before time began " if the rulers of this age have exercised authority since before time began. This is improbable.

Andrew Criddle
Giuseppe
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Re: 1 Cor 2:6-8 talks about a crucifixion happened "before time began"

Post by Giuseppe »

andrewcriddle wrote: Sat Aug 17, 2019 2:46 am The crucifixion of Christ by the rulers of this age can only happen "before time began " if the rulers of this age have exercised authority since before time began. This is improbable.

Andrew Criddle
By your logic, it seems to be equivalent to say that, since the Archons of this age are localized precisely in the air (between the heaven and the earth), then the crucifixion of Christ by the Archons can only happen in the air, and not on the earth.


Apart from that, the authority of the Archons of this age started probably from the creation of the world, since only from the beginning of the time they had a time to exercise authority.

What if the fondative act of their authority on the world was just the creation of the world and the death of Christ, meant as the way by which Christ helped God to create the world ?

In this sense, Christ could be «the first» to be risen from the dead.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.
Giuseppe
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Re: 1 Cor 2:6-8 talks about a crucifixion happened "before time began"

Post by Giuseppe »

Supporting the idea that Christ was crucified just when God created the world is the parallelism raised by Justin between the Christian Logos and the Platonic Logos.

Plato wrote that the demiurge (per Plato: a positive figure) created the world by using an elementary geometry: the intersection (in the form of a X) of two axes between them. On this X the World Soul was «fixed» (crucified?):


www.mdpi.com/2077-1444/3/3/880/pdf
At the end of Timaeus, Plato proclaims that the living Cosmos (which he said had the shape of an
X) is a visible, discernible god... The Demiurge first creates the World Soul, composed of two cosmic circles whose intersections
take the form of an X. According to Plato, the Cosmic Soul itself is invisible, but the Creator decides to make the visible body of the universe as similar as possible to the invisible soul...

So Irenaeus, Epideixis 1:34 :

And because He is Himself the Word of God Almighty, who in His invisible form pervades us universally in the whole world, and encompasses both its length and breadth and height and depth for by God's Word everything is disposed and administered the Son of God was also crucified in these, imprinted in the form of a cross on the universe; 171 for He had necessarily, in becoming visible, to bring to light the universality of His cross, in order to show openly through His visible form that activity of His: 172 that it is He who makes bright the height, that is, what is in heaven, and holds the deep, which is in the bowels of the earth, and stretches forth and extends the length from East to West, navigating also the Northern parts and the breadth of the South, and calling in all the dispersed from all sides to the knowledge of the Father.

It is in this sense that the mystery of the crucifixion of Christ appened «before time began». Otherwise, if it was Christ to be «imprinted in the form of a cross on the universe», who was the killer who «fixed» him on a cosmic cross, just when the creator created the world?

The demiurge himself? The god of the Jews? never it! Accuse only the «Archons of this Age», rather.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.
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