What does "Christ" really mean?

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
rgprice
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What does "Christ" really mean?

Post by rgprice »

It seems to be taken that christos means "the messiah", but is this really correct? Maybe it is. Are there examples of the term chrsitos being used to refer to the messiah of David prior to Christian writings?

Or does christos just mean high priest? I don't find its usage in the Septuagint, though maybe I've missed it?

It seems to me that "Christ" refers to Jesus as the heavenly high priest as described in the letter to the Hebrews, not as a messiah of David as described in the DSS. Does the DSS use the term Christ to describe the messiah of David? To my knowledge no.

Does anyone know of exact examples of the usage of the term christos outside of Christians writings? And also can anyone list examples of the usage of the term messiah from the DSS?

Thanks
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GakuseiDon
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Re: What does "Christ" really mean?

Post by GakuseiDon »

rgprice wrote: Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:48 amIt seems to be taken that christos means "the messiah", but is this really correct?
"Christos" means "anointed". "Mashiyach" ("messiah") is the Hebrew word for "anointed". So technically it can apply to anyone who is anointed. There are several anointed people in the OT. Anointing is done by rubbing on oil or something similar on kings and high priests. I'm not sure whether oil was used in non-Jewish ceremonies though, so the exact term might not be used outside Judaism (I'd be interested in the answer also).

Examples of the use of the word in the OT can be found here:
https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/le ... 4899&t=KJV

Cyrus was called "anointed" in Isa 45:3:

"Thus saith the LORD to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him the two leaved gates; and the gates shall not be shut;"

I can't answer your other questions though.

(Important note: I know next to nothing about the original languages of the OT and NT, so I don't claim any expertise in this!)
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rgprice
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Re: What does "Christ" really mean?

Post by rgprice »

In the Gospels the terms "Christ" and "messiah" and "anointed" are all found in English. What are the Greek words from which these words are translated?
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GakuseiDon
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Re: What does "Christ" really mean?

Post by GakuseiDon »

"Christos". I'd recommend using the blueletterbible website, which uses Strong's, and where you can see the Greek, Hebrew and English translations/transliterations. The entry for "Christ":
https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/le ... 5547&t=KJV
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Re: What does "Christ" really mean?

Post by Giuseppe »

I know that the French mythicist Edouard Dujardin wrote the following words about :


Christos, the Anointed with Oil. In all the mystery religions the second god bears titles which correspond with the characters attributed to him. Jesus in pre-Christianity is the “Anointed with Oil” and the word which thus describes him - Christos - after having been a title, became a proper name, and finally a function.
“The Anointed” is in Hebrew Mashiah and in Greek Christos. Modern translators have converted Mashiah into Messiah and Christos into Christ, and translate Christos as “Anointed”, “Christ”, and “Messiah” as their inclination leads them. In reality the three words represent very different ideas. The unction of the sacred oil is characteristic of the royal and sacerdotal dignity. The anointed in Israel are the kings and high priests, without any suggestion of what we call Messianism. Throughout the Old Testament the word Mashiah or Christos signifies simply the anointed.
At the end of the biblical epoch, and for a considerable time after, the Jews hoped for a liberator, but never called him Messiah. Among the pre-Christians the second god Jesus is “the Anointed” but in the primitive sense, denoting the royal and sacerdotal dignity. In penetrating into the Greek world the word Christ became a proper name - the second name of Jesus. Jesus was a Semitic name unintelligible to the Greeks. Christos, on the other hand, is a Greek word. It is an adjective derived from the verb chrio, “to anoint”. The word resembled the Latin Chrestus, which signifies “beneficent”, and the name Christos profited thereby.
The proper name Christos is thus evidence of the first Hellenization of Jesus. The word Messiah in the moderne sense of Liberator is the witness of the Judaization of Jesus. It dates from around the year 70. We have seen that the Jewish Messiah was only “the Anointed”. Little by little in the course of the first century before our era it became the title of the Liberator promised by the prophets, but it is to Christianity that the word Messiah owes its fortune. The title of Messiah is one that the Rabbis seldom apply to the Liberator; it is mainly the Christians who state that the Jews expected “the Messiah”. The Jewish notion of Messianism attributed to the name of Christ was the main cause of the Judaization of Christianity, when, in order to take the place left vacant by Judaism, which appeared to have perished with Jerusalem in the year 70, it sought to make Christianity the heir of “the New Israel”. Thus the term Christos had a three-fold evolution: a title, “the Anointed with Oil” in the old Palestinian sense; a proper name Christos with the Hellenization of the god; a function, the Messiah with the his Judaization.

(Ancient history of the god Jesus, p. 50-52)

You seems to argue something of very similar. For the avoidance of doubt, Dujardin means for “Judaization” not what other mythicists (myself too) mean by it (i.e., anti-Gnostic insistence that the creator is the supreme god and that Jesus is the his son), but the insistence that Jesus is the Jewish Conqueror Messiah (an insistence that rises only after the 70 CE, as witnessed in Mark 13's warnings against false Christs).
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.
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Ben C. Smith
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Re: What does "Christ" really mean?

Post by Ben C. Smith »

rgprice wrote: Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:48 am It seems to be taken that christos means "the messiah", but is this really correct? Maybe it is. Are there examples of the term chrsitos being used to refer to the messiah of David prior to Christian writings?

Or does christos just mean high priest? I don't find its usage in the Septuagint, though maybe I've missed it?
Χριστός/χριστός, as GDon mentioned, means "anointed" (or "anointed one" if used substantively); it is applied in the LXX/OG to priests (Leviticus 4.5, 16; 6.15, for example), to prophets (Psalm 104/105.15, for example), and to kings (1 Samuel 24.7, 11; 26.9, 11, 16; 2 Samuel 19.21/22, for example). As GDon states, it applies to Cyrus in Isaiah 45.1. Its usage in Daniel 9.26 seems pretty important to later Christian usage. Most/all of these OT usages translate the Hebrew word מָשִׁיחַ, transliterated in English as Messiah. The Psalms of Solomon expect a messianic figure:

Psalms of Solomon 17.36: 36 And there shall be no unrighteousness in his days in their midst, for all shall be holy and their king the anointed [τοῦ Χριστοῦ] of the Lord.

Psalms of Solomon 18.5-7: 5 May God cleanse Israel against the day of mercy and blessing, against the day of choice when He brings back His anointed [Χριστοῦ αὐτοῦ]. 6 Blessed shall they be that shall be in those days, in that they shall see the goodness of the Lord which He shall perform for the generation that is to come 7 under the rod of chastening of the Lord's anointed [Χριστοῦ κυρίου] in the fear of his God, in the spirit of wisdom and righteousness and strength.

This future king is explicitly said to be of David's line in 17.4, 6, 21.
It seems to me that "Christ" refers to Jesus as the heavenly high priest as described in the letter to the Hebrews, not as a messiah of David as described in the DSS. Does the DSS use the term Christ to describe the messiah of David? To my knowledge no.
The DSS are mostly written in Hebrew; Christ is an English transliteration of a Greek word (there is nothing Hebrew about it, except that the LXX/OG used it to translate the Hebrew word Messiah). We would thus not expect Christ in the DSS, but the Hebrew term מָשִׁיחַ (= Messiah) appears therein a fair bit.
Does anyone know of exact examples of the usage of the term christos outside of Christians writings?
Refer to the Psalms of Solomon and to the LXX/OG above.
And also can anyone list examples of the usage of the term messiah from the DSS?
Here are just two references:

4Q252, column 5, lines 1-7: 1 [....] The scepter shall [no]t depart from the tribe of Judah. While Israel has the dominion, 2 there [will not] be cut off someone who sits on the throne of David. For «the staff» is the covenant of royalty, 3 [and the thou]sands of Israel are «the standards». [Blank.] Until the Messiah [משיח] of righteousness comes, the branch of 4 David. For to him and to his descendants has been given the covenant of the kingship of his people for everlasting generations, which 5 he observed [...] the Law with the men of the Community, for 6 [...] it is the assembly of the men of [...] 7 [...] He gives [....]

4Q521, fragment 2, column 2, lines 1-2: 1 [For the heav]ens and the earth will listen to his anointed one [למשיחו], 2 [and all th]at is in them will not turn away from the precepts of the holy ones.

You can find more in this online PDF: http://www.hebrew-streams.org/works/qum ... ssiahs.pdf. I do not vouch for any of the opinions therein, but the file does give a decent list of messianic texts (including those which include the actual term Messiah) from Qumran.

ETA: I looked through my notes on this topic, and I found the following list, which overlaps with one of the two instances already presented above:

1QS, column 9, lines 8-11: Their goods must not be mixed with the goods of the men of deceit who have not cleansed their path to separate from injustice and walk in a perfect behaviour. They should not depart from any counsel of the law in order to walk in complete stubbornness of their heart, but instead shall be ruled by the first directives which the men of the Community began to be taught until the prophet comes, and the Messiahs of Aaron and Israel.

1Q28a, column 2, lines 11-22: At [a ses]sion of the men of renown, [those summoned to] the gathering of the community council, when [God] begets the Messiah with them: [the] chief [priest] of all the congregation of Israel shall enter, and all [his] br[others, the sons] of Aaron, the priests [summoned] to the assembly, the men of renown, and they shall sit be[fore him, each one] according to his dignity. After, [the Mess]iah of Israel shall [enter] and before him shall sit the heads of the th[ousands of Israel, each] one according to his dignity, according to [his] po[sition] in their camps and according to their marches. And all the heads of the cl[ans of the congre]gation with the wise [men ...] shall sit before them, each one according to his dignity. And [when] they gather [at the tab]le of community [or to drink the n]ew wine, and the table of 1the community is prepared [and the] new wine [is mixed] for drinking, [no-one should stretch out] his hand to the first-fruit of the bread and of [the new wine] before the priest, for [he is the one who bl]esses the first-fruit of bread and of the new win[e and stretches out] his hand towards the bread before them. Afterwar[ds,] the Messiah of Israel [shall str]etch out his hands towards the bread. [And afterwards, they shall ble]ss all the congregation of the community, each [one according to] his dignity. And in accordance with this precept one shall act at each me[al, when] at least ten me[n are gat]hered.

4Q252, column 2, lines 1-7: The sceptre shall [no]t depart from the tribe of Judah. While Israel has the dominion, there [will not] be cut off someone who sits on the throne of David. For «the staff» is the covenant of royalty, [and the thou]sands of Israel are «the standards». .... Until the Messiah of righteousness comes, the branch of David. For to him and to his descendants has been given the covenant of the kingship of his people for everlasting generations, which he observed [...] the Law with the men of the Community, for [...] it is the assembly of the men of [...] [...] He gives

CD-A, column 12-13, lines 23, 1-2: And this is the rule of the assembly of the cam[ps]. Those who walk in them, in the time of wickedness until there arises the ‹Messiah› of Aaron and Israel, shall be ten in number as a minimum to (form) thousands, hundreds, fifties and tens.

CD-B, column 19, lines 5-11: But (over) all those who despise the precepts and the ordinances, may be emptied over them the punishment of the wicked, when God visits the earth, when there comes the word which is written by the hand of the prophet Zechariah [13.7]: «Wake up, sword, against my shepherd, and against the male who is my companion - oracle of God - strike the shepherd, and the flock may scatter, and I shall turn my hand against the little ones». Those who revere him are [Zechariah 11.11] «the poor ones of the flock». These shall escape in the age of the visitation; but those that remain shall be delivered up to the sword when there comes the Messiah of Aaron and Israel.

CD-B, column 20, line 1: ...of the unique teacher until there arises the Messiah out of Aaron and Israel.

4Q266, fragment 10, column 1, lines 10-12: This is the exact interpretation [of those who live in the camps, and the]se are the foundation walls of the assembly. And this is the exact interpretation [of the regulations by which they shall be r]uled until the rise of the Messiah of Aaron and Israel.

These are limited to texts which actually use the term Messiah; they do not include texts which may be talking about a messianic figure without using the term. Also, this is not necessarily exhaustive.
Last edited by Ben C. Smith on Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:46 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Ben C. Smith
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Re: What does "Christ" really mean?

Post by Ben C. Smith »

rgprice wrote: Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:57 am In the Gospels the terms "Christ" and "messiah" and "anointed" are all found in English. What are the Greek words from which these words are translated?
GakuseiDon wrote: Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:05 am "Christos". I'd recommend using the blueletterbible website, which uses Strong's, and where you can see the Greek, Hebrew and English translations/transliterations. The entry for "Christ":
https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/le ... 5547&t=KJV
With two exceptions: John 1.41 and 4.25, which (instead of translating) go the route of transliterating the Hebrew word into Greek as Μεσσίας.
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Re: What does "Christ" really mean?

Post by perseusomega9 »

so basically Iesous Christos should be translated Oily Josh
The metric to judge if one is a good exegete: the way he/she deals with Barabbas.

Who disagrees with me on this precise point is by definition an idiot.
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Re: What does "Christ" really mean?

Post by Irish1975 »

1)
rgprice wrote: Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:48 am Does anyone know of exact examples of the usage of the term christos outside of Christians writings?
Here is the Liddell-Scott entry for the verb χρίω, which occurs frequently in Homer. Eg, in Odyssey 4.252, where Helen of Troy tells that she bathed Odysseus and anointed him with olive oil.

2) χριστός in the Odes of Solomon (9:3, 17:16, 24:1, 29:6, 39:11, 41:3, and 41:15) is not associated with either David or Jesus, and it carries redemptive and/or gnostic overtones.

3) In 1 John 2:20, there is the curious statement that
you have anointing [χρῖμα] from the holy one and you all know
or alternatively
you have anointing from the holy one and you know all things
Again in 2:27:
but the anointing [τὸ χρῖσμα] which you received from him abides in you, and you have no need that any one should teach you; as his anointing teaches you about everything, and is true, and is no lie, just as it has taught you, abide in him.
Traditionally this is glossed as "the anointing of the holy spirit," or "spiritual grace," but such terms do not occur in this passage; the "him" from whom the anointing is received is "the Son." Literally, τὸ χρῖσμα is the unguent or oil with which a person is anointed. In the context of 1 John, it has the significance of imparting to the recipient full, genuine, and unwavering knowledge of the truth that Jesus is ὁ Χριστός (2:22). There seems to have been a ritual anointing in this community having nothing to do with priesthood or healing of the sick, as in the later catholic church, but with being as it were certified as a true believer. Is it some sort of alternative or supplement to baptism? There is no mention of baptism in 1 John, but there is mention of water:
This is he who came by water and blood, Jesus Christ, not with the water only but with the water and the blood. 7 And the Spirit is the witness, because the Spirit is the truth. 8 There are three witnesses, the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree.
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Re: What does "Antichrist" really mean?

Post by arnoldo »

The question could also be asked what does "Antichrist" really mean?
"Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.…” 1 John 4:2-3.

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