The Parable of Sower and the dismembering of the Primal Man before the creation of the world

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Giuseppe
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The Parable of Sower and the dismembering of the Primal Man before the creation of the world

Post by Giuseppe »

The Parable of Sower was interpreted by the Gnostic Naassenes - we know this from Hyppolitus - as alluding to the Creation of the world.

Robert M. Price thinks that what is sown were the disiepta membra of the Man of Light or Primal Man, dismembered by the demonic archons to give life to a matter otherwise dead forever.

So, in this interpretation, the Sower would be really the evil demiurge, the god of the Jews, since he had any interest to give life to the his stupid creation by sowing the fragments of Light of the Primal Man.

Now, I note a very curious and surprising "coincidence" too much impossible to be such:

Ἀκούετε. ἰδοὺ ἐξῆλθεν ὁ σπείρων σπεῖραι.

Listen! A farmer went out to sow his seed.

(Mark 4:11)


The sower is a σπείρων, the “sower”, the “scatterer”, but it may be a subtle allusion to the “dismemberer” par excellence, i.e. the evil Demiurge who dismembered the Man of Light in the Gnostic Myth. The great surprise is that we find it in the following passage:

Οἱ δὲ στρατιῶται ἀπήγαγον αὐτὸν ἔσω τῆς αὐλῆς, ὅ ἐστιν Πραιτώριον, καὶ συνκαλοῦσιν ὅλην τὴν σπεῖραν.

The soldiers took Him away into the palace (that is, the Praetorium ), and they called together the whole Roman cohort.

(Mark 15:16)

Why were the best candidates, in Mark, to execute an earthly dismembering of Jesus, just the Roman σπεῖρα ?

In this way, by dismembering the body of Jesus (flagellation), the soldiers of the σπεῖρα work (without knowing it) as the Sower (σπείρων) of the Parable, and accordingly as the Demiurge of the Gnostic myth: by the act itself of dismembering Jesus, they are really sowing his disiepta membra in the entire world.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.
bbyrd009
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Re: The Parable of Sower and the dismembering of the Primal Man before the creation of the world

Post by bbyrd009 »

imo the Son of Man must be raised up like a snake on a pole... is even a pretty good synopsis of that concept.


"No Son of Man may die for another's sins; the soul that sins will die"
"No Son of Man may die for another's sins..." Ezekiel 18:20
Giuseppe
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Re: The Parable of Sower and the dismembering of the Primal Man before the creation of the world

Post by Giuseppe »

So I wonder: why ''Mark'' put the implicit allusion to the σπείρων (of the Parable) just in the episode of the flagellation of Jesus by the members of the Roman σπεῖρα? Why there and not rather during the act itself of the crucifixion, where, at contrary, the σπεῖρα immediately disappears from the sight?

I think that Marc Stephane is completely right: ''Mark'' is allegorizing the older myth, the one where the demons kill Jesus and only after, they hung up the his corpse on the tree. There is no need that a corpse hunged on a tree is dismembered still by the demons, since it is only a corpse. While, at contrary, there is obviously an absolute need that the demons dismember Jesus alive, when he is not still on the cross/stake/pale.

This is the reason why who is allegorizing the demons in Mark, i.e. just the σπεῖρα, plays a role before the cruxifixion, and not during it.

This is also the reason why in later Gospels the σπεῖρα enters on the scene just in the Gethsemani, a place full of trees, to remember that the corpse of the victim was hunged on one of them.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.
lsayre
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Re: The Parable of Sower and the dismembering of the Primal Man before the creation of the world

Post by lsayre »

bbyrd009 wrote: Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:20 am "No Son of Man may die for another's sins; the soul that sins will die"
Where does that come from?
bbyrd009
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Re: The Parable of Sower and the dismembering of the Primal Man before the creation of the world

Post by bbyrd009 »

lsayre wrote: Sun Jan 20, 2019 8:06 am
bbyrd009 wrote: Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:20 am "No Son of Man may die for another's sins; the soul that sins will die"
Where does that come from?
i think Isaiah...nope, Ezekiel 18:20, but the concept can also be stated NT, "be perfect as I am perfect," "no sinners will inherit the kingdom," etc i guess
"No Son of Man may die for another's sins..." Ezekiel 18:20
bbyrd009
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Re: The Parable of Sower and the dismembering of the Primal Man before the creation of the world

Post by bbyrd009 »

bbyrd009 wrote: Sun Jan 20, 2019 11:50 am
lsayre wrote: Sun Jan 20, 2019 8:06 am
bbyrd009 wrote: Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:20 am "No Son of Man may die for another's sins; the soul that sins will die"
Where does that come from?
i think Isaiah...nope, Ezekiel 18:20, but the concept can also be stated NT, "be perfect as I am perfect," "no sinners will inherit the kingdom," etc i guess. Fwiw i interpret "Jesus died for my sins" more like "Christ died because of my sins," or even "I killed Christ when i found the world."
"No Son of Man may die for another's sins..." Ezekiel 18:20
bbyrd009
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Re: The Parable of Sower and the dismembering of the Primal Man before the creation of the world

Post by bbyrd009 »

Giuseppe wrote: Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:31 pm So I wonder: why ''Mark'' put the implicit allusion to the σπείρων (of the Parable) just in the episode of the flagellation of Jesus by the members of the Roman σπεῖρα? Why there and not rather during the act itself of the crucifixion, where, at contrary, the σπεῖρα immediately disappears from the sight?

I think that Marc Stephane is completely right: ''Mark'' is allegorizing the older myth, the one where the demons kill Jesus and only after, they hung up the his corpse on the tree. There is no need that a corpse hunged on a tree is dismembered still by the demons, since it is only a corpse. While, at contrary, there is obviously an absolute need that the demons dismember Jesus alive, when he is not still on the cross/stake/pale.

This is the reason why who is allegorizing the demons in Mark, i.e. just the σπεῖρα, plays a role before the cruxifixion, and not during it.

This is also the reason why in later Gospels the σπεῖρα enters on the scene just in the Gethsemani, a place full of trees, to remember that the corpse of the victim was hunged on one of them.
nice imo, we might note that none of the "Blood" that is supposedly so precious can be Quoted from Scripture either; "blood and water" (in English, of course) is as close as we can get. Likely a deficient translation, but i can't easily access a Lex right now
"No Son of Man may die for another's sins..." Ezekiel 18:20
Giuseppe
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Re: The Parable of Sower and the dismembering of the Primal Man before the creation of the world

Post by Giuseppe »

bbyrd009 wrote: Sun Jan 20, 2019 11:56 amnice imo, we might note that none of the "Blood" that is supposedly so precious can be Quoted from Scripture either; "blood and water" (in English, of course) is as close as we can get. Likely a deficient translation, but i can't easily access a Lex right now
if I understand what you are saying, I am sorry: "spear" (of Longinus) derives from ancient germanic, whereas σπεῖρα, despite of similar sounding, is a different term.

Even so, the occurrence of σπεῖρα and σπείρων (in the respective points of GMark where they are found) is too much impossible to be a mere coincidence. A similar "coincidence" is the occurrence of the "dove" both at baptism and at the episode of the Temple court.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.
Giuseppe
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Re: The Parable of Sower and the dismembering of the Primal Man before the creation of the world

Post by Giuseppe »

Giuseppe wrote: Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:25 pm A similar "coincidence" is the occurrence of the "dove" both at baptism and at the episode of the Temple court.
I am alluding to this meaning:
Mark 11.15 On reaching Jerusalem, Jesus entered the temple area and began driving out those who were buying and selling there. He overturned the tables of the money changers and the benches of those selling doves.
During Passover, Jews would come to Jerusalem and go to the money changers to change whatever currency they brought with them to Temple currency and use Temple currency to buy a sacrificial animal to present to the high preist for sacrifice. Mark here implies that the sacrificial animal that Jews bought and presented to the high priest for sacrifice was a dove. During Jesus’ entire ministry, he has this dove-like holy spirit possessing him and leading him about – ultimately leading him to its sacrifice in Jerusalem.

(my emphasis)
https://deusdiapente.wordpress.com/2011 ... dove-form/

With equal degree of probability, the σπεῖρα scourging Jesus in the Preatorium, works as the same σπείρων scattering the Word in the world. Both the scenes are alluding to the dismembering of the cosmic Son of Father before the creation of the worldby the Archons-demons, to give life to it.

Just as the dismemberment of Dionysus by the Titans gave life to the world.

Just as the death of the bull by Mithra gave live to the world.

Just as the death of the Lamb gave live to the world, in Rev 13:8.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.
Giuseppe
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Re: The Parable of Sower and the dismembering of the Primal Man before the creation of the world

Post by Giuseppe »

I am really surprised! Further evidence that proves that I am right to see not a mere coincidence behind the occurrence σπεῖρα/σπείρων , but an implicit allusion (probably meant to eclipse/judaize more than to reveal) to the evil demiurge, YHWH, the evil god of the Jews,

...is the following:
Puech quotes in another connection, and Doresse adduces at this point in his commentary, an interpretation given by the Priscillianists, to the effect that this was not a good sower, or he would not have been so careless; in fact, he was the God of this world, sowing souls into bodies. The passage is quoted by Orosius (c. A.D. 414) from the Memoria Apostolorum, a work of uncertain date, and it is not clear how far back this interpretation can be traced. We cannot say that this was how Thomas understood the parable, but such an exegesis is certainly in the Gnostic tradition." (Studies in the Gospel of Thomas, pp. 98-99)

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/t ... omas9.html

It is just the my interpretation, of the Sower as an evil being! This explains why Jesus gives as explanation of the Parable the mere judaization of it (the judaizing counter-exegesis), by introducing only a new thing: that the seed is the Word (so conceding that the Sower is YHWH, only he is the supreme god, and not the evil demiurge).

It would be interesting to read the textual evidence of this passage quoted by Orosius.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.
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