The point of all this, Robert, is that 1 Th 2:15-16 historicizes Jesus as a Jew/Judaean killed by his fellow Jews/Judeans, and that contrary to everything else that the "real" Paul of Romans/Corinthians/Galatians says about the death of Jesus Christ. As I wrote in an earlier post, to which you did not respond, nowhere else does Paul speak of that death as a human murder with individual human culprits. He never blames the Romans or the Jews for killing Jesus.robert j wrote: ↑Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:39 amBingo.Irish1975 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 22, 2019 9:59 pmIf you're putting scare quotes around the word "event," which "happens" on account of a "creative reading of scripture," maybe what you're talking about is fiction, not history, and maybe suggesting a "location" for this "event" in historical time and geographical space is hopelessly muddled?robert j wrote: ↑Fri Jan 18, 2019 1:04 pm
Now, I think Paul clearly derived much of his system from creative readings of the Jewish scriptures, including the sufferings, death and resurrection of his Jesus Christ. And that, as result, I think the most likely location of the scriptural “events” of Paul’s Jesus Christ would have been the Jewish homelands.
I don’t think that I have (at least intentionally) indicated that I thought the “events” of Paul’s Jesus Christ in the Jewish scriptures actually happened, that they were historical.
I think Paul derived the “events” of his Jesus Christ from his creative allegorical and typological readings of the Jewish scriptures in order to reveal hidden meanings, a long-secret mystery.
Such treatments of the scriptures were not new or unique to Paul within the wide realm of Jewish thought of the times. For many in those days, the sacred scriptures were living documents --- a continuing source of new insights and guidance for the here and now.
Philo applied allegorical and typological readings of the Jewish scriptures. And Philo wrote about a group of Alexandrian Jews --- he called the Therapeutae --- that spent many hours each day studying the Jewish scriptures for hidden meanings.
The sectarian authors of the Dead Sea Scroll Pesharim typically ignored the historical and literary context in the scriptural passages, and instead, applied the ancient scriptural messages to the events and concerns in their own contemporary community.
In his commentary on Psalm 1, Origen cites a 'Hebrew' scholar as saying that the Jewish scriptures are like a large house with very many rooms. Outside each door lies a key --- but not the right key. The great and difficult task is to find the right keys that will open the doors.
Now, if asked by one of his followers, I think Paul would have said that the “events” of his Jesus Christ that he found in the Jewish Scriptures actually did happen. He would say that the events were hidden, they were a mystery that had to be unraveled and revealed by inspired readings and new interpretations. It just so happens, Paul would have continued, God revealed to me the keys to unraveling these mysteries.
My interest now in this regard is --- using Paul’s occasional letters, our limited record of his creative exegesis --- to try and determine if it is possible to more clearly determine whom Paul may have intended as responsible for hanging his Jesus Christ on wood. That effort may very well be hopeless in light of the limited extant evidence --- but I think the question deserves investigation.
Whether or not one adopts a mythicist reading of Paul's christology, 1 Th 2:15-16 is best read as a post-Pauline interpolation, from the time when the church was especially anxious to (take your pick)
(a) harmonize Paul with Peter and the other apostles
(b) understand Paul as knowledgeable about the Jesus of the Gospels
(c) euhemerize Paul's account of Jesus