early Pauline letter collections

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MrMacSon
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Re: early Pauline letter collections

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DCHindley wrote: Wed Dec 26, 2018 10:41 pm mrmacson,

That fellow has latched onto one ms that s/he feels "fits" better, but in reality, Hebrews, when present in a ms of the "p" group (not always, and only later), ...fit[s] into the other letters in a wide variety of places.


Per Trobisch, Hebrews is usually sandwiched between the second group of letters to churches and the letters to individuals, but this is not the only place it is found. I suppose the idea was that "Hebrews" (as a people) constituted a kind of church.

I also just remembered that this table (I put it together from both Trobish's book & Aland's Text of the NT) shows that the vast majority (about 75%) of Christian mss contain Gospels, and only about 25% contain letters of Paul.
Cheers Dave. I was intrigued with things like the propositions, "Strain the philosophy of Hebrews through the sieve of Galatian praxis, and we have the gritty opus magnum called Romans" and "Galatians-Hebrews can be in the place now occupied by Romans" especially with "Gunther Bornkamm (1963) [having] argued that Romans was recension of pre-existing material."
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MrMacSon
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Re: early Pauline letter collections

Post by MrMacSon »

DCHindley wrote: Wed Dec 26, 2018 10:41 pm mrmacson,

That fellow has latched onto one ms that s/he feels "fits" better, but in reality, Hebrews, when present in a ms of the "p" group (not always, and only later), ...fit[s] into the other letters in a wide variety of places.

Category
Total
Percent
e
a
p
r
e 2,123 67.2% 2,123 0 0 0
ap* 273 8.6% 0 273 273 0
p 222 7.0% 0 0 222 0
eap** 150 4.7% 150 150 150 0
r 130 4.1% 0 0 0 130
a 87 2.8% 0 87 0 0
apr 76 2.4% 0 76 76 76
eapr 59 1.9% 59 59 59 59
ea 11 0.3% 11 11 0 0
er 11 0.3% 11 0 0 11
pr 6 0.2% 0 0 6 6
ep 5 0.2% 5 0 5 0
ar 3 0.1% 0 3 0 3
ear 2 0.1% 2 2 0 2
Total 3,158 100.0% 2,361 661 791 287
TNT (p83) 2,361 662 792 287
Variance* 0 1 1 0
74.76% 20.96% 25.08% 9.09%

* variance probably should be added to category "ap"
** not in Trobisch's table. Number derived from TNT

e = Gospels (usually in order Mt, Mk, Lk, Jn)
a = Acts and General Epistles
p = Letters of Paul (Hebrews usually between 2 Thess & 1 Tim)
r = Revelation

Per Trobisch, Hebrews is usually sandwiched between the second group of letters to churches and the letters to individuals, but this is not the only place it is found. I suppose the idea was that "Hebrews" (as a people) constituted a kind of church.

I also just remembered that this table (I put it together from both Trobish's book & Aland's Text of the NT) shows that the vast majority (about 75%) of Christian mss contain Gospels, and only about 25% contain letters of Paul.
I remember a table like that from Trobisch's The First New Testament - just looked it up: it's a copy of the one from the Alands' Text of the NT (p.27 of Trobisch's First New Testament). Though Trobisch's has different columns: headed Papyri, Majuscules, and Miniscules,
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DCHindley
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Re: early Pauline letter collections

Post by DCHindley »

MrMacSon wrote: Thu Dec 27, 2018 12:10 am
DCHindley wrote: Wed Dec 26, 2018 10:41 pm
I remember a table like that from Trobisch's The First New Testament - just looked it up: it's a copy of the one from the Alands' Text of the NT (p.27 of Trobisch's First New Testament). Though Trobisch's has different columns: headed Papyri, Majuscules, and Miniscules,
It is indeed a modification of Trobisch's table, which in turn was based on Aland's TNT.

Somehow Trobisch omitted "eap," which I found a way to include in the table in my modified version.

Since I slice & dice numbers for work it wasn't that hard to hash out the details.

DCH
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