Was the Sixth Hour = 6 pm? Was Mark's 'Third Hour' an Attempt at Harmonizing the Greek and Roman Time Calculations?

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
iskander
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Re: Was the Sixth Hour = 6 pm? Was Mark's 'Third Hour' an Attempt at Harmonizing the Greek and Roman Time Calculations?

Post by iskander » Fri Nov 16, 2018 3:16 pm

Det. is not used for anything. A reformer has been crucified and Paul is forced to deal with the existing law as it is.

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Secret Alias
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Re: Was the Sixth Hour = 6 pm? Was Mark's 'Third Hour' an Attempt at Harmonizing the Greek and Roman Time Calculations?

Post by Secret Alias » Fri Nov 16, 2018 3:16 pm

Right John 2. And the bit about the redemption of Christians goes through Origen and Tertullian back to a strange passage in Justin which clearly seems to echo Paul even though Justin is never demonstrated to actually cite Paul:
Then I replied, "Just as God commanded the sign to be made by the brazen serpent, and yet He is blameless; even so, though a curse lies in the law against persons who are crucified, yet no curse lies on the Christ of God, by whom all that have committed things worthy of a curse are saved.

"For the whole human race will be found to be under a curse. For it is written in the law of Moses, 'Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things that are written in the book of the law to do them.' And no one has accurately done all, nor will you venture to deny this; but some more and some less than others have observed the ordinances enjoined. But if those who are under this law appear to be under a curse for not having observed all the requirements, how much more shall all the nations appear to be under a curse who practise idolatry, who seduce youths, and commit other crimes? If, then, the Father of all wished His Christ for the whole human family to take upon Him the curses of all, knowing that, after He had been crucified and was dead, He would raise Him up, why do you argue about Him, who submitted to suffer these things according to the Father's will, as if He were accursed, and do not rather bewail yourselves? For although His Father caused Him to suffer these things in behalf of the human family, yet you did not commit the deed as in obedience to the will of God. For you did not practise piety when you slew the prophets. And let none of you say: If His Father wished Him to suffer this, in order that by His stripes the human race might be healed, we have done no wrong. If, indeed, you repent of your sins, and recognise Him to be Christ, and observe His commandments, then you may assert this; for, as I have said before, remission of sins shall be yours. But if you curse Him and them that believe on Him, and, when you have the power, put them to death, how is it possible that requisition shall not be made of you, as of unrighteous and sinful men, altogether hard-hearted and without understanding, because you laid your hands on Him?
It's very hard to argue that this passage isn't aware of Galatians 3. Nevertheless I am open to the idea that the passage might have been added to Paul. It's another possibility.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote

iskander
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Re: Was the Sixth Hour = 6 pm? Was Mark's 'Third Hour' an Attempt at Harmonizing the Greek and Roman Time Calculations?

Post by iskander » Fri Nov 16, 2018 3:19 pm

John2 wrote:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 3:13 pm
Ben C. Smith wrote:
Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:41 pm
Yes, Deuteronomy 21.22-23 is about removing the corpse before the next day. But that does not mean that it cannot be read (and quite naturally) as the hanged person being a curse whether s/he was removed or not, right?

Deuteronomy 21.22-23: 22 If a man has committed a sin worthy of death and he is put to death, and you hang him on a tree, 23 his corpse shall not hang all night on the tree, but you shall surely bury him on the same day (for he who is hanged is accursed of God), so that you do not defile your land which the Lord your God gives you as an inheritance.

This can easily be read as a command to remove the body before sundown because the body is already a curse, and one day is enough. It does not have to be read as suggesting that the body becomes a curse only if it stays up past sundown. Right?
That's how I read it too. I think a person who is hanged is cursed because they had "committed a sin worthy of death," not because they were hanged. And because it is a cursed person, their hanged body needs to be buried on the same day or else it will pollute the land.
I will leave this pleasant conversation for the right ones.. Goodnight . :thumbup:

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