Trypho Says Christians Invented Their Christ?

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Secret Alias
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Trypho Says Christians Invented Their Christ?

Post by Secret Alias » Wed Nov 14, 2018 6:51 am

"I approve of your other remarks, and admire the eagerness with which you study divine things; but it were better for you still to abide in the philosophy of Plato, or of some other man, cultivating endurance, self-control, and moderation, rather than be deceived by false words, and follow the opinions of men of no reputation. For if you remain in that mode of philosophy, and live blamelessly, a hope of a better destiny were left to you; but when you have forsaken God, and reposed confidence in man, what safety still awaits you? If, then, you are willing to listen to me (for I have already considered you a friend), first be circumcised, then observe what ordinances have been enacted with respect to the Sabbath, and the feasts, and the new moons of God; and, in a word, do all things which have been written in the law: and then perhaps you shall obtain mercy from God. But Christ--if He has indeed been born, and exists anywhere--is unknown, and does not even know Himself, and has no power until Elias come to anoint Him, and make Him manifest to all (Χριστὸς δέ, εἰ καὶ γεγένηται καὶ ἔστι που, ἄγνωστός ἐστι καὶ οὐδὲ αὐτός πω ἑαυτὸν ἐπίσταται οὐδὲ ἔχει δύναμίν τινα, μέχρις ἂν ἐλθὼν Ἠλίας χρίσῃ αὐτὸν καὶ φανερὸν πᾶσι ποιήσῃ). And you, having accepted a groundless report, invent a Christ for yourselves, and for his sake are inconsiderately perishing (ὑμεῖς δέ, ματαίαν ἀκοὴν παρα δεξάμενοι, Χριστὸν ἑαυτοῖς τινα ἀναπλάσσετε καὶ αὐτοῦ χάριν τὰ νῦν ἀσκόπως ἀπόλλυσθε)." [Justin Dialogue 8]

ἀναπλάσσω = reshape, remodel or redevelop. Maybe he accuses Christians of reshaping their Christ
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote

Charles Wilson
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Re: Trypho Says Christians Invented Their Christ?

Post by Charles Wilson » Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:27 am

Good pick-up. Notice the use of "Existence is not a predicate": "...invent a Christ for yourselves and for his sake..."
The reason? We're over halfway to a "Transvaluation of all Values" (Nietzsche). You can brutalize an entire Culture if you don't have to argue nuances.

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DCHindley
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Re: Trypho Says Christians Invented Their Christ?

Post by DCHindley » Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:12 am

Secret Alias wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 6:51 am
"I approve of your other remarks, and admire the eagerness with which you study divine things; but it were better for you still to abide in the philosophy of Plato, or of some other man, cultivating endurance, self-control, and moderation, rather than be deceived by false words, and follow the opinions of men of no reputation. For if you remain in that mode of philosophy, and live blamelessly, a hope of a better destiny were left to you; but when you have forsaken God, and reposed confidence in man, what safety still awaits you? If, then, you are willing to listen to me (for I have already considered you a friend), first be circumcised, then observe what ordinances have been enacted with respect to the Sabbath, and the feasts, and the new moons of God; and, in a word, do all things which have been written in the law: and then perhaps you shall obtain mercy from God. But Christ--if He has indeed been born, and exists anywhere--is unknown, and does not even know Himself, and has no power until Elias come to anoint Him, and make Him manifest to all (Χριστὸς δέ, εἰ καὶ γεγένηται καὶ ἔστι που, ἄγνωστός ἐστι καὶ οὐδὲ αὐτός πω ἑαυτὸν ἐπίσταται οὐδὲ ἔχει δύναμίν τινα, μέχρις ἂν ἐλθὼν Ἠλίας χρίσῃ αὐτὸν καὶ φανερὸν πᾶσι ποιήσῃ). And you, having accepted a groundless report, invent a Christ for yourselves, and for his sake are inconsiderately perishing (ὑμεῖς δέ, ματαίαν ἀκοὴν παρα δεξάμενοι, Χριστὸν ἑαυτοῖς τινα ἀναπλάσσετε καὶ αὐτοῦ χάριν τὰ νῦν ἀσκόπως ἀπόλλυσθε)." [Justin Dialogue 8]

ἀναπλάσσω = reshape, remodel or redevelop. Maybe he accuses Christians of reshaping their Christ
I wonder whether "ἀσκόπως ἀπόλλυσθε" (heedlessly perish) was not about Christians being persecuted (which is possible), but about their fate before God due to making a Christ that was artificial.

I think Trypho acknowledged that Jesus existed as a man, and that a messiah could be lurking in obscurity, unrecognized not only by others or even himself, until Elijah comes from the dead to anoint him. BUt I'm sure he did not think Jesus was the anointed initiator of any earthly Judaic kingdom, and certainly not a divine redeemer, which I believe he thought was going too far.

DCH

FransJVermeiren
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Re: Trypho Says Christians Invented Their Christ?

Post by FransJVermeiren » Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:31 pm

Secret Alias wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 6:51 am
And you, having accepted a groundless report, invent a Christ for yourselves, and for his sake are inconsiderately perishing (ὑμεῖς δέ, ματαίαν ἀκοὴν παρα δεξάμενοι, Χριστὸν ἑαυτοῖς τινα ἀναπλάσσετε καὶ αὐτοῦ χάριν τὰ νῦν ἀσκόπως ἀπόλλυσθε)." [Justin Dialogue 8]

ἀναπλάσσω = reshape, remodel or redevelop. Maybe he accuses Christians of reshaping their Christ
This last sentence is very interesting as it combines a ‘vain report’ and the ‘remodeling of the Christ’. If the Christians remodeled the Christ, we can ask ourselves who the original Christ was. I believe the original Christ was the messiah who comes forward from the Dead Sea Scrolls, a future victorious king who would expel the Romans and install Jewish (Essene) world dominion. What happened was exactly the contrary: the catastrophic defeat of 70 CE. Because of the totally reverse conditions the Christ had to be remodeled. Instead of the Christ as the victorious new world ruler after the won war, a Christ had to be distilled from the defeat. The Essenes found this new Christ in a bright spot at the moment of total defeat, the unexpected survival after crucifixion of one of the leaders of the rebellion, Jesus son of Saphat. They launched their remodeled Christ in a vain report, an account that antedated the events by 40 years and wiped out the war circumstances of Jesus’ activity, crucifixion and survival. This ‘groundless report’ is the gospel of Mark.

The perishing of the last phrase maybe refers to the consecutive messianic wars of 66-70, 115-117 and 132-135 CE.
www.waroriginsofchristianity.com

The practical modes of concealment are limited only by the imaginative capacity of subordinates. James C. Scott, Domination and the Arts of Resistance.

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