Charles Wilson wrote: ↑Wed Nov 07, 2018 5:54 pm
Please accept this alternative for consideration. "Judas" => the General "Cestius". Start with somewhere around ...
I have just been reading about Cestius and I wonder if an argument could be made that
the converse of aspects of Josephus' narrative about Cestius could be part of the foundation for the narrative about Jesus of Nazareth.
In another post, in which you also proposed ''that 'Judas' is Cestius'', you went on to note this -
Charles Wilson wrote: ↑Fri May 19, 2017 9:18 am
... Josephus has Cestius leaving Jerusalem when he could have stayed another day and ended the Jewish Insurrection.
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Based on Josephus,
War, Bk 2, Chap 19, Section 7, -
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... Cestius was not conscious either how the besieged despaired of success, nor how courageous the people were for him; and so he recalled his soldiers from the place, and by despairing of any expectation of taking it, without having received any disgrace, he retired from the city, without any reason in the world.
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Just prior, Josephus'
War, Bk 2, Chap. 19, had -
4. ... Cestius, observ[ed] that the disturbances that were begun among the Jews afforded him a proper opportunity to attack them, [so had taken] his whole army along with him, and put the Jews to flight, and pursued them to Jerusalem. He [had] pitched his camp upon the elevation called Scopus, [or watch-tower,] which was distant seven furlongs from the city; yet did not he assault them in three days' time, out of expectation that those within might perhaps yield a little; and in the mean time he sent out a great many of his soldiers into neighboring villages, to seize upon their corn.
... on the fourth day, which was the thirtieth of the month Hyperbereteus [Tisri], when he had put his army in array, he brought it into the city. Now for the people, they were kept under by the seditious; but the seditious themselves were greatly affrighted at the good order of the Romans, and retired from the suburbs, and retreated into the inner part of the city, and into the temple. But when Cestius was come into the city, he set the part called Bezetha, which is called Cenopolis, [or the new city,] on fire; as he did also to the timber market ...
5. In the mean time, many of the principal men of the city were persuaded by Ananus, the son of Jonathan, and invited Cestius into the city, and were about to open the gates for him; but he overlooked this offer, partly out of his anger at the Jews, and partly because he did not thoroughly believe they were in earnest; whence it was that he delayed the matter so long, that the seditious perceived the treachery, and threw Ananus and those of his party down from the wall, and, pelting them with stones, drove them into their houses; but they stood themselves at proper distances in the towers, and threw their darts at those that were getting over the wall.
Thus did the Romans make their attack against the wall for five days, but to no purpose. But on the next day Cestius took a great many of his choicest men, and with them the archers, and attempted to break into the temple at the northern quarter of it; but the Jews beat them off from the cloisters, and repulsed them several times when they were gotten near to the wall, till at length the multitude of the darts cut them off, and made them retire; but the first rank of the Romans rested their shields upon the wall, and so did those that were behind them, and the like did those that were still more backward, and guarded themselves with what they call Testudo, [the back of] a tortoise, upon which the darts that were thrown fell, and slided off without doing them any harm; so the soldiers undermined the wall, without being themselves hurt, and got all things ready for setting fire to the gate of the temple.
6. And now it was that a horrible fear seized upon the seditious, insomuch that many of them ran out of the city, as though it were to be taken immediately; but the people upon this took courage, and where the wicked part of the city gave ground, thither did they come, in order to set open the gates, and to admit Cestius30 as their benefactor, who, had he but continued the siege a little longer, had certainly taken the city; but it was, I suppose, owing to the aversion God had already at the city and the sanctuary, that he [Centius] was hindered from putting an end to the war that very day.
7. It then happened that Cestius was not conscious either how the besieged despaired of success, nor how courageous the people were for him; and so he recalled his soldiers from the place, and by despairing of any expectation of taking it, without having received any disgrace, he retired from the city, without any reason in the world ...
ie. he missed the opportunity to be a saviour for both sides; an opportunity a later story-teller, looking for motivation for a story, might have noticed.
After Cestius had withdrawn from Jerusalem, the Jews followed and attacked, as noted also in
War, Bk 2, Chap 19, Section 7, -
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... But when the robbers perceived this unexpected retreat of his, they resumed their courage, and ran after the hinder parts of his army, and destroyed a considerable number of both their horsemen and footmen; and now Cestius lay all night at the camp which was at Scopus; and as he went off farther next day, he thereby invited the enemy to follow him, who still fell upon the hindmost, and destroyed them ...
... they got to Gabao, their former camp, and that not without the loss of a great part of their baggage. There it was that Cestius staid two days, and was in great distress to know what he should do in these circumstances; but when on the third day he saw a still much greater number of enemies, and all the parts round about him full of Jews, he understood that his delay was to his own detriment, and that if he staid any longer there, he should have still more enemies upon him.
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Interestingly, you also noted in the same post that
Charles Wilson wrote: ↑Fri May 19, 2017 9:18 am
... The 12th Legion is frequently a Player in the Book of
Acts.