garbhd1988 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 26, 2018 1:18 am
robert j wrote: ↑Wed Oct 24, 2018 11:14 am
Some of your terminology may not fit this example (i.e. legitimate church authority, the Church), and you say "The scriptural origins are fairly complete" ---- anyway, in case you haven't already considered this one, I think the very earliest extant example among believers in a Jesus Christ is found in 1 Corinthians ---
Sexual immorality is actually reported among you, and sexual immorality such as not even among the pagans, so as for one to have (the) wife of the father. And you are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, so that the (one) having done this deed might be taken out of your midst. For I, though being absent in body, now being present in spirit, have already judged the (one) having thus produced this, as being present, in the name of our Lord Jesus, of you having been gathered together and of me in spirit, with the power of the Lord Jesus, to deliver such a one to Satan for destruction of the flesh, so that (his) spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord. (1 Corinthians 5:1-5)
... Do you not judge those within? … "Expel the evil out from among yourselves." (1 Cor 5:13).
Yes, it is interesting. There are various examples of judgment, jurisdiction of the Church over believes, and the notion of being 'handed over' to Satan and the surrounding discussions.
Oh yeah, I forgot all about the magical aspect! There is a lot written on the subject if I recall correctly.
Being handed over to a demon is a commonplace in ancient magical texts. The ones we have from Egypt date to around the 2nd century or later, but share a common "demonology." They portray a military-like hierarchy of all spiritual beings (daimones) who carried out elemental tasks, including control ailments, wind, sun, rain, etc., and some that promote good. They are treated much like soldiers and some are officers and some are grunts, even gold-bricks. Orders from the higher order demons are communicated down the chain of command, the receiver passing down those orders only if the proper passwords, salutes and "seals" (images) are presented.
The common magician can interfere with this chain of command by knowledge of the passwords, salutes and seals, essentially impersonating a soldier, and have the target elemental being stop or start their elemental work on a specific individual or class of people.
Now Paul does not seem to be interfering, but as a person with authority, maybe in consequence of his vision experience, essentially acting as an officer in the angelic/elemental army. This would correspond to the Persian Magus, who assumes an almost god-like authority about him, a high officer specially authorized by the most powerful gods. These could commandeer units of elementals for his immediate use for a special project.
(Smith, Morton)
Jesus the Magician (1978)
(Betz, Hans Dieter, ed)
The Greek Magical Papyri in Translation-Including the Demotic Spells (1986)
(Mirecki, Paul & Marvin Meyer)
Magic and Ritual in the Ancient World (2002)
For an example of a thoroughly Jewish magical recipe book, where demons tend to be impartial soldiers carrying out elemental tasks, see:
(Morgan, Michael A, tr)
Sepher Ha-Razim The Book of Mysteries (1983)
This book is very much in the model of the Greek/Demotic Magical papyri when it comes to angelology/demonology
The Judean Pseudepigrapha tended to group these elementals as good Angels and the others as bad Demons. I'm thinking that the elemental beings are simply assumed to be doing their jobs, impartial to who gives them orders. See R H Charles' various comments about Demonology and its parallels in the NT in his introductions to his translations of 1 Enoch and Jubilees, in:
(Charles, R H)
Apocrypha & Pseudepigrapha of the Old Testament, volume 2 (1913).
Sometimes the whole command system is simply called Angelology, and when the concentration is on bad actors like the fallen angels and their offspring, it may be called Demonology. The sins of the Watcher Angels (1 Enoch, Book of Watchers) was not confined to disobedience to god, but also teaching their human wives how to manipulate the activities of the elemental beings that still go about their duties unaffected by the revolts among the angelic commanders.
You might also find of interest D C Duling's translation of the "Testament of Solomon" in:
(Charlesworth, James H, ed)
The Old Testament Pseudepigrapha, vol 2 (1985)
Solomon commandeers demons and puts them to work building his famous temple.
For an example of a thoroughly Jewish magical recipe book, where demons tend to be impartial soldiers carrying out elemental tasks, see:
(Morgan, Michael A, tr)
Sepher Ha-Razim The Book of Mysteries (1983)
This book is very much in the model of the Greek/Demotic Magical papyri when it comes to angelology/demonology
DCH