Was Jesus STONED and after crucified?

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
Secret Alias
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Re: Was Jesus STONED and after crucified?

Post by Secret Alias »

So it's you against the Jews. I have no idea why you are bringing up Neusner. You're such a fucking imbecile.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
perseusomega9
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Re: Was Jesus STONED and after crucified?

Post by perseusomega9 »

Secret Alias wrote: Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:25 am it's his CONSTANT use of HYPERBOLE and overstatement. Proof is a high standard. Stop saying something is "proved" when nothing has been proved. It's so fucking annoying. Giuseppe is a complete simpleton
add ridiculous deference to argument from authority, when it supports his suppositions
The metric to judge if one is a good exegete: the way he/she deals with Barabbas.

Who disagrees with me on this precise point is by definition an idiot.
-Giuseppe
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DCHindley
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Re: Was Jesus STONED and after crucified?

Post by DCHindley »

Y'know, this subject line could generate some inappropriate response like "Hey Jesus, man, take a hit from this pipe, man, before they string you up" (however that might be explained).

G, I am unable to understand your thinking on this "crucifued in outer space" theme. How on earth can a late Roman or even medieval Toledoth legend bear on the 1st century origins of Christianity?

First of all, the Toledoth Jeschu was a farce meant to make fun of Jesus, not to provide a theological justification for him, even in jest. He was a magician, nothing more or less, and a bastard son of a Roman soldier to boot (in other words, "trash").

It draws on a wide range of traditions, from different ages. That these TJ stories (there are several variants) suggest that Jeschu was really stoned and hung is because, in Judean law that would have been his proper punishment "for leading the people astray". The NT story is at variance with this, which the TJ story writers use in their parody of him.

For the TJ, "Jeschu" was a charlatan and deceiver, and the source was both the Talmud(s) and other Judean polemical literature against Christianity.

DCH
Last edited by DCHindley on Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
Giuseppe
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Re: Was Jesus STONED and after crucified?

Post by Giuseppe »

Secret Alias wrote: Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:41 am So it's you against the Jews. I have no idea why you are bringing up Neusner. You're such a fucking imbecile.
Can you understand what I have quoted, at least?

Neusner favored the English translation of a book by a French mythicist who argued that he had proved - yes, “proved” - that the early Christians hated the god of the Jews.

And this is not an argument from auctoritatem. This is to show you that there is no “sinister agenda” in the operation. Because as Stuart wrote, you, Secret Alias, “read sinister”.


Now, as I have said before, this thread gives only a my rapid tangential speculation on the matter.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.
Secret Alias
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Re: Was Jesus STONED and after crucified?

Post by Secret Alias »

So if arguments made by an appeal to authority are conclusive then you should have acknowledged long ago that Jesus really existed as the gospels declare given the near unanimity of scholarly opinion on this subject.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
Secret Alias
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Re: Was Jesus STONED and after crucified?

Post by Secret Alias »

And where Giuseppe, where you fucking piece of shit, does it say that Neusner thought the French mythicist HAD PROVED anything? The fact that some mythicist crackpot from a long time ago claimed he himself had proved something only serves to demonstrate that mythicism is populated by a great number of individuals prone to hyperbole and exaggeration. Your serve only to reinforce that perception. Look at your fucking ridiculous explanation to my calling out your use of 'proof':
Neusner favored the English translation of a book by a French mythicist who argued that he had proved - yes, “proved” - that the early Christians hated the god of the Jews.
Do understand how ridiculous this line of 'proof' is? Neusner liked a book in which an author of marginal worth thought he proved something. Great. Case closed. You've proved your case that a French mythicist proved something about the Gospel of Luke.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
Secret Alias
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Re: Was Jesus STONED and after crucified?

Post by Secret Alias »

It's like I am having a debate with someone with mental illness. I can only come off looking bad and insensitive when you call out your constant self-mutilation. YOU ARE NOT A GREAT THINKER GIUSEPPE. You know that right? What you lack in brains you make up for in the sheer relentlessness of your zeal. Just getting close to the target is only good in the game of horseshoes. You can't 'prove anything' by finding out (and citing) someone who likes this theory. Scholarship by Facebook.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
Secret Alias
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Re: Was Jesus STONED and after crucified?

Post by Secret Alias »

As a rule please refrain from saying that someone 'proved' something in the humanities.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
Giuseppe
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Re: Was Jesus STONED and after crucified?

Post by Giuseppe »

I have quoted Neusner as a example of Jewish scholar who is in line of principle OPEN to the idea that the early Christians hated the god of the Jews.

Differently from Secret Alias, who is CLOSED and even hostile to the only idea that the Gnostics were, as another Jewish scholar (Hyam Maccoby) explained, people who rejected in toto the Judaism even if living "in the penumbra of Judaism".

Mythicism is not the question here.

Here the true reason you attack me is that you hate the view that someone hated the Jewish demiurge.

But if at least two Jewish scholars accept that view, then surely you can't accuse who argues that view of sinister agendas.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.
Secret Alias
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Re: Was Jesus STONED and after crucified?

Post by Secret Alias »

Do ... you ... understand ... that ... it ... is ... very ... hard ... to ... prove ... things ... in ... the ... humanities ... you ... fucking ... mental ... case. Stop ... saying ... that ... so and so ... 'proved' ... this ... or ... that ... in ... their ... ultimately ... subjective ... interpretation ... of ... the ... gospel(s). The ... fact ... that ... you ... like ... someone ... doesn't ... mean ... they ... are ... better ... than ... other ... scholars ... or ... that ... they ... have .... miraculously ... managed ... to ... break ... through ... the ... 'proof ... barrier' ... for ... the ... humanities. In ... the ... humanities ... we ... argue ... on ... behalf ... of ... theses ... or ... ideas. We ... don't ... 'prove' ... anything. We ... try ... to ... make ... sound ... arguments. It ... is ... high ... praise ... indeed ... when ... someone ... who ... is ... generally ... regarded ... to ... have ... written ... many ... papers ... which ... contain ... 'sound ... arguments' ... says ... that ... you ... have ... argued ... persuasively. That's ... enough .. in ... the ... humanities. That's ... all ... there ... is.
Last edited by Secret Alias on Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
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