How could Paul afford his extensive travels?

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
User avatar
DCHindley
Posts: 3401
Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2013 9:53 am
Location: Ohio, USA

How could Paul afford his extensive travels?

Post by DCHindley »

I have previously speculated that Paul was a client to he household of a wealthy Herodian patron, and may have had more than one patron of this kind.

Now, just for the sake of heuristic investigation, let's assume that Acts was correct, and Paul was a "tentmaker." Basically, he fabricated products from canvas, so besides "tents" this probably included canvas awnings, privacy screens, and maybe even sails for ships. Keep in mind that he was a contractor, and contractors did not operate independently of patrons in Roman times.

Today, there are "international" contractors like security, construction, etc., who likely operate similarly to how a wide area contractor like Paul would have in the 1st century CE. Only without the technology of telephones, radio, iPhones, Androids, laptops, printers, etc. He would have, basically a handful of letters of credit from his patrons that authorized local bankers to extend him credit, that the patron would pay. He would also have a list of other clients who could recommend or provide lodging, technical expertise, etc.

Naturally, in exchange, Paul would be expected to fulfill a contract, which afforded his patron(s) with something of value (fancy villa, marketplace and stadium screens, sails for patron owned ships, etc.). Since they are sending Paul far and wide to do what he apparently did well, he may have over his career accumulated a long list of contacts, with details like where they lodged, who their patrons were, their personalities, etc. A good number of these seem to be Judeans of the diaspora, both slaves and freedmen, or collegial gentiles with connections to the Judean communities.

This is why I think that Paul worked for a Herodian "prince." Then there are the freedmen of those patrons, who in turn act as patrons for Paul. Paul himself was likely the 2nd or 3rd generation of a Freedman, who had converted to Judaism (circumcision law and all) as a token of gratitude. Paul considered himself a natural born Judean, although I notice he identifies his "tribe" as "Benjamin," which might have simply been a convention for identifying gentile converts to Judaism, and their families.

Paul would have been very much like a modern Conservative Jew (sans the conversion part). Observe as much as you can, within the restrictions of society. Back in Judea, where there were fewer societal restrictions restricting observance of Judea customs, those Judeans would likely resemble Orthodox Jews today.

But I digress ... Based on his range of travel, I'd suggest that his patrons might have included, at some point or another, the following:

1) Agrippa I, King of Batanaea AD 37–41, King of Galilee AD 40–41, King of all Judaea AD 41–44;
2) Herod of Chalcis, (King of Chalcis) AD ??–48;
3) Agrippa II, Tetrarch of Chalcis AD 48–53, King of Batanaea AD 53–100;
4) Aristobulus of Chalcis, King of Armenia Minor AD 55-72, Tetrarch of Chalcis AD 57-92.

Does anyone know of good sources for understanding the Roman banking system, and how letters of credit worked in that time?

Thnx. DCH

FWIW, Paul would have been developing his gentile friendly movement as a sideline to his duties as a client of wealthy patrons. I mean, he even had himself officially designated an "apostle" by the temple authorities (apostles was a technical term for persons who were officially authorized to collect and then transfer money gifts to the Judean temple authorities, an authorization that Romans denied to other ethnicities). To get such an authorization, I might well expect him to provide proof he had the ability/connections needed to carry this kind of thing out. I am curious to know how Paul managed to pull this off, as he eventually did make it to Jerusalem to provide relief funding for pilgrims, if we can believe Acts.
Secret Alias
Posts: 18321
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2015 8:47 am

Re: How could Paul afford his extensive travels?

Post by Secret Alias »

I say our 'Paul' was an invented personality. There might have been an apostle of Christianity. He might have written letters like the ones we have now (only shorter). But - as Tertullian implies - the biographical details that emerge from our collection wasn't there in the original. He was a complete man of mystery. Unknown. Unknowable. It is interesting how 'Paul' seems very much like Polycarp from what we know of his life via his martyrdom and Lucian's biography of Peregrinus. The original apostle was more like the occultated imam of Shi'i Islam. Unknown and unknowable. Like the heavenly Father.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
User avatar
DCHindley
Posts: 3401
Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2013 9:53 am
Location: Ohio, USA

Re: How could Paul afford his extensive travels?

Post by DCHindley »

Secret Alias wrote: Sat Oct 13, 2018 7:18 am I say our 'Paul' was an invented personality. There might have been an apostle of Christianity. He might have written letters like the ones we have now (only shorter). But - as Tertullian implies - the biographical details that emerge from our collection wasn't there in the original. He was a complete man of mystery. Unknown. Unknowable. It is interesting how 'Paul' seems very much like Polycarp from what we know of his life via his martyrdom and Lucian's biography of Peregrinus.
Stevan.

As you know, David Trobisch in his book Paul and his Letter Collection does suggest that anyone editing a collection of letters for publication would remove any business details from them, simply because they were besides the point for publishing the letters in the 1st place. Perhaps pieces and parts of a multitude of letters Paul would have wrote would be consolidated into letters to "churches" or specific individuals. Pieces and parts of household codes and locks of teachings of the editor's day might be inserted (as in "insert the usual" in magical texts).

Snipped out would be parts like "Send over Dionysius the dyer, and Stephanus the pulley mechanic, to help me fulfill my contract to replace the awnings in so and so's palace," or "Expenses for this trip, to date, 12,300 denarii for materials, 6,273 d. for fabrication labor including housing, and 300 d. for rigging, total 18,873 d. I expect to conclude shortly. Where to next, my lord."

DCH
Last edited by DCHindley on Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
hakeem
Posts: 663
Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2017 8:20 am

Re: How could Paul afford his extensive travels?

Post by hakeem »

DCHindley wrote: Sat Oct 13, 2018 7:01 am
Now, just for the sake of heuristic investigation, let's assume that Acts was correct, and Paul was a "tentmaker." Basically, he fabricated products from canvas, so besides "tents" this probably included canvas awnings, privacy screens, and maybe even sails for ships. Keep in mind that he was a contractor, and contractors did not operate independently of patrons in Roman times...…...

If you assume Acts was correct then Paul was most likely funded by the Church and by those who were converted during his travel.

If Paul was a tent maker he probably would not be making tents after he was blinded by a bright light and heard the voice of Jesus.
User avatar
DCHindley
Posts: 3401
Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2013 9:53 am
Location: Ohio, USA

Re: How could Paul afford his extensive travels?

Post by DCHindley »

hakeem wrote: Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:41 am
DCHindley wrote: Sat Oct 13, 2018 7:01 am
Now, just for the sake of heuristic investigation, let's assume that Acts was correct, and Paul was a "tentmaker." Basically, he fabricated products from canvas, so besides "tents" this probably included canvas awnings, privacy screens, and maybe even sails for ships. Keep in mind that he was a contractor, and contractors did not operate independently of patrons in Roman times...…...

If you assume Acts was correct then Paul was most likely funded by the Church and by those who were converted during his travel.

If Paul was a tent maker he probably would not be making tents after he was blinded by a bright light and heard the voice of Jesus.
I think he was more of an administrative manager than a direct worker. His weak eyesight was offset by his knowledge of the business and ability to organize things to get the contract done. In between, he might be able to see well enough to do stitching and cutting. He wont be rigging I suppose, that's why he needs contacts. We just don't see that in the letters as they were edited for publication.

DCH
User avatar
arnoldo
Posts: 969
Joined: Sat Oct 12, 2013 6:10 pm
Location: Latin America

Re: How could Paul afford his extensive travels?

Post by arnoldo »

DCHindley wrote: Sat Oct 13, 2018 7:01 am I have previously speculated that Paul was a client to he household of a wealthy Herodian patron, and may have had more than one patron of this kind.

Now, just for the sake of heuristic investigation, let's assume that Acts was correct, and Paul was a "tentmaker." Basically, he fabricated products from canvas, so besides "tents" this probably included canvas awnings, privacy screens, and maybe even sails for ships. Keep in mind that he was a contractor, and contractors did not operate independently of patrons in Roman times.

Today, there are "international" contractors like security, construction, etc., who likely operate similarly to how a wide area contractor like Paul would have in the 1st century CE. Only without the technology of telephones, radio, iPhones, Androids, laptops, printers, etc. He would have, basically a handful of letters of credit from his patrons that authorized local bankers to extend him credit, that the patron would pay. He would also have a list of other clients who could recommend or provide lodging, technical expertise, etc.

Naturally, in exchange, Paul would be expected to fulfill a contract, which afforded his patron(s) with something of value (fancy villa, marketplace and stadium screens, sails for patron owned ships, etc.). Since they are sending Paul far and wide to do what he apparently did well, he may have over his career accumulated a long list of contacts, with details like where they lodged, who their patrons were, their personalities, etc. A good number of these seem to be Judeans of the diaspora, both slaves and freedmen, or collegial gentiles with connections to the Judean communities.

This is why I think that Paul worked for a Herodian "prince." Then there are the freedmen of those patrons, who in turn act as patrons for Paul. Paul himself was likely the 2nd or 3rd generation of a Freedman, who had converted to Judaism (circumcision law and all) as a token of gratitude. Paul considered himself a natural born Judean, although I notice he identifies his "tribe" as "Benjamin," which might have simply been a convention for identifying gentile converts to Judaism, and their families.

Paul would have been very much like a modern Conservative Jew (sans the conversion part). Observe as much as you can, within the restrictions of society. Back in Judea, where there were fewer societal restrictions restricting observance of Judea customs, those Judeans would likely resemble Orthodox Jews today.

But I digress ... Based on his range of travel, I'd suggest that his patrons might have included, at some point or another, the following:

1) Agrippa I, King of Batanaea AD 37–41, King of Galilee AD 40–41, King of all Judaea AD 41–44;
2) Herod of Chalcis, (King of Chalcis) AD ??–48;
3) Agrippa II, Tetrarch of Chalcis AD 48–53, King of Batanaea AD 53–100;
4) Aristobulus of Chalcis, King of Armenia Minor AD 55-72, Tetrarch of Chalcis AD 57-92.

Does anyone know of good sources for understanding the Roman banking system, and how letters of credit worked in that time?

Thnx. DCH

FWIW, Paul would have been developing his gentile friendly movement as a sideline to his duties as a client of wealthy patrons. I mean, he even had himself officially designated an "apostle" by the temple authorities (apostles was a technical term for persons who were officially authorized to collect and then transfer money gifts to the Judean temple authorities, an authorization that Romans denied to other ethnicities). To get such an authorization, I might well expect him to provide proof he had the ability/connections needed to carry this kind of thing out. I am curious to know how Paul managed to pull this off, as he eventually did make it to Jerusalem to provide relief funding for pilgrims, if we can believe Acts.
Perhaps a more difficult question is how did Paul have time to allegedly travel extensively from one end of the Roman empire to the other (Perhaps even to Spain). The late Jerome-Murphy O-Conner attempts to provide a time frame how Paul's journey was possible.

https://books.google.com/books?id=aDbaq ... el&f=false

As far as how did Paul pay for his travels see link below;
https://biblehub.com/philippians/4-19.htm
FJVermeiren
Posts: 22
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2016 8:48 am
Contact:

Re: How could Paul afford his extensive travels?

Post by FJVermeiren »

Two elements

1.
In The Political Paul on page 20 popular philosophers in the Hellenistic world are discussed:

Poor, cherishing manual labor, valuing hardship, little interested in the comforts of family life, nomadic and fired by a consciousness of possessing a divine mission, speaking audaciously and uninhibited in conduct (anaideia), engaging in displays of supernatural powers, they were marginal characters at the center of Hellenistic social and religious life. Few if any of these features would not apply to Paul.

Blumenfeld, Bruno, The Political Paul – Justice, Democracy and Kingship in a Hellenistic Framework, London/New York, 2001

2.
Paul seems to be an Essene messianist. The Essenes held hospitality towards their travelling brothers in high esteem. Josephus War II:125b: In every town one of the order is appointed specially to look after strangers and provide them with clothing and provisions.
www.waroriginsofchristianity.com

The practical modes of concealment are limited only by the imaginative capacity of subordinates.
James C. Scott, Domination and the Arts of Resistance p. 139
Secret Alias
Posts: 18321
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2015 8:47 am

Re: How could Paul afford his extensive travels?

Post by Secret Alias »

As you know, David Trobisch in his book Paul and his Letter Collection does suggest that anyone editing a collection of letters for publication would remove any business details from them, simply because they were besides the point for publishing the letters in the 1st place.
No. Aside from the Marcionite considerations (keep them aside for now) there is the other implausibility. As you know, there is this substratum to the entire corpus of the letters (pronounced in the heretical recension) where the apostle IS God, where the apostle IS Christ, where the apostle IS great and grand and without equal and above all others. When ever the 'crazy voice' appears or is visibly manifest THAT'S when we see the editor come into the text and soothe and correct - 'I am speaking like a madman' etc.

So the editor is visible when the real apostle emerges and the real apostle sounds like a madman not an advertising executive or a janitor or a middle class worker guy.

As such I think the editor added the bits about Paul being normal. The kookoo guy who thinks he's god or Christ or the second Moses ain't taking what their givin' cause he's workin' for a livin'. And even if he was he's not writing about in his kookoo letters where he's pretending to be God, Christ and the Holy Spirit. Hard to keep up crazy grandiose thoughts when you're admitting to wiping your ass sitting on the toilet. God doesn't shit. God don't need Charmin.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
Giuseppe
Posts: 13658
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2015 5:37 am
Location: Italy

Re: How could Paul afford his extensive travels?

Post by Giuseppe »

DCHindley wrote: Sat Oct 13, 2018 7:01 am let's assume that Acts was correct, and Paul was a "tentmaker."
If they had the courage to reduce an anti-Moses (like Paul) to a “Second Moses”, then no wonder if they had also the courage to reduce an anti-creator to a “Second (Jewish) God” and so on.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.
Secret Alias
Posts: 18321
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2015 8:47 am

Re: How could Paul afford his extensive travels?

Post by Secret Alias »

Even an anti-Moses is in essence a Moses. Common traits i.e. 'an/the apostle.'
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
Post Reply