Aquila and Prisca Two Male Apostles in a Gay Marriage?

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PhilosopherJay
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Aquila and Prisca Two Male Apostles in a Gay Marriage?

Post by PhilosopherJay »

Hi All,

I propose that Aquila and Prisca (AKA Priscilla), the man and wife mentioned in 1 Corinthians, Romans and Acts, were actually a gay married couple. Here is some of the evidence.

1. These are strange names considering that the text calls Aquila a Jew from Pontus. Aquila is Latin for "eagle" and Prisca is feminine for prescus, Latin for "ancient." A dialect of Greek was spoken in Pontus and the names are meaningless in Greek. They have nothing to do with Judaism. The Eagle was the ensign of the Roman legion. The Eagle was associated with Zeus and Jupiter. Also the Eagle was associated with the apotheosis of the Roman Emperors, the enrollment of a mortal among the gods. "Eagle" and "Ancient" seem to be nicknames. The fact that Priscilla has a feminine nickname does not mean the person was a woman. As the wife of a man in a marriage, he might well be called by a feminine nickname. Remember the Lou Reed song "Walk on the Wild Side"
Holly came from Miami F.L.A.
Hitch-hiked her way across the U.S.A.
Plucked her eyebrows on the way
Shaved her legs and then he was a she
2. Aquila and Prisca, according to Acts and Romans, travel from Pontus to Rome, from Rome to Corinth, from Corinth to Ephesus and from Ephesus back to Rome. It would have been extremely unusual for a man to travel so much with his female wife. Women were supposed to take care of the household. That was their primary responsibility. They normally stayed at home while their husbands traveled. Travel was expensive and dangerous. There were no police forces, so if a woman was kidnapped and abused, the husband could only sue in the law courts to get her back.
Except for exceptional cases, such as Caesar bringing Cleopatra to Rome with him, women did not normally travel long distances with their husbands in the First Century in the Roman Empire.

3. Aquila and Prisca are both described as "Tent-Makers," in Acts 18:3, "And because he was of the same craft, he stayed with them, and worked: for by their occupation they were tentmakers."
It would have been extremely unusual for a man and women to have the same job. Most occupations were segregated by sex. Given the rough and heavy materials that tent-makers would have had to work with, it is hard to imagine a woman being allowed to do such a job. If Prisca and Aquila are really two men, this would not be a problem at all.

4. Paul forbids women to even speak in Christian meetings in Corinthians 14.34, "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law."
Women are to remain silent. They are not allowed to pray, recite hymns, speak in tongues or make prophesies as the men do in meetings. Paul does not make any exceptions. It is incredible to imagine he would have allowed a woman to be an apostle. If Prisca is not allowed to speak when Christians meet, how can she be an apostle? If Prisca and Aquila were both man, this would not be a problem.

5. Sometimes the name Prisca is used before the name Aquila. It would have been extremely unusual to give the woman's name before her husband's name. If these were two men it would not have mattered which name was used first.
Note from Wikipedia article "Priscilla and Aquila" (Retrieved March 10, 2014: They are mentioned six times in four different books of the New Testament. They are always named as a couple and never individually. Of those six references, Priscilla's name is mentioned first three times, which is conspicuously unusual for such a male-dominant society.[2][4] Throughout Scripture, the man is usually mentioned first; e.g., Adam and Eve, Ananias and Sapphira, making the three appearances of Priscilla's name first a notable exception.

6. Passage 18.26-27 reads: "He began to speak boldly in the synagogue, but when Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they took him home and explained God's way to him more accurately.
When Apollos wanted to cross over to Achaia, the brothers wrote to the disciples there, urging them to welcome him. On his arrival he greatly helped those who, through God's grace, had believed."
The term "Brothers" almost certainly refers to Prisca and Aquila. They are the only people speaking with him in the previous sentence and they have just come from Corinth. There is no reason for the other "brothers" of Ephesus to want him to go there.

7. In 3.Galatians.27, Paul writes, "28There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." Thus he abolishes sexual difference between males and females. As there is no longer any difference between male and female, it follows logically that members of the church should marry men just as they marry women.

8. There is a vigorous debate regarding Romans 16:7 and the reference to an Apostle named either Junia (female) or Junias (male). The manuscript evidence is ambiguous. This indicates that early Christians disagreed if apostles could be female. Perhaps some Christians felt that it was better for Paul to be friends with a female than a gay male and changes Priscus to Prisca/Priscilla.

9. The writer says explicitly in 1. Corinthians 7. "It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with women." Here is a clear statement against heterosexuality. Paul never says that it is good for a man not to have sexual relations with men. If he felt that all sexual relations were bad, why did he not say so? As it is, he condemns only heterosexual relations.

10. In 1. Corinthians 7, he says, "6Now as a concession, not a command, I say this 7I wish that all were as I myself am. But each has his own gift from God, one of one kind and one of another." By "as myself am" The writer either means that he is homosexual or he abstains from sex. The text does not tell us which. Why is Paul being precocious about his sexuality or lack thereof?

Warmly,

Jay Raskin
Last edited by PhilosopherJay on Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:13 pm, edited 5 times in total.
beowulf
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Re: Aquila and Prisca Two Male Apostles in a Gay Marriage?

Post by beowulf »

Acts
18

1 After this Paul* left Athens and went to Corinth. 2 There he found a Jew named Aquila, a native of Pontus, who had recently come from Italy with his wife Priscilla, because Claudius had ordered all Jews to leave Rome. Paul* went to see them, 3 and, because he was of the same trade, he stayed with them, and they worked together—by trade they were tentmakers. 4 Every sabbath he would argue in the synagogue and would try to convince Jews and Greeks.
beowulf
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Re: Aquila and Prisca Two Male Apostles in a Gay Marriage?

Post by beowulf »

Romans
“16-1 I commend to you our sister Phoebe, a deacon of the church at Cenchreae, 2 so that you may welcome her in the Lord as is fitting for the saints, and help her in whatever she may require from you, for she has been a benefactor of many and of myself as well.”

Phoebe was a prominent member of the church, actively involved in the ministry [a deacon], she was planning a trip to Rome and she was a generous donor which explains why Paul did not need to be wealthy to travel; the Pauline ministry had financial support from men and women.



“3 Greet Prisca and Aquila, who work with me in Christ Jesus, 4 and who risked their necks for my life, to whom not only I give thanks, but also all the churches of the Gentiles”

In 3, Paul conveys greetings to the missionary wife-and-husband team who had most likely returned to Rome after Claudius’s decree of banishment lapsed at his death. [54 ad]
PhilosopherJay
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Re: Aquila and Prisca Two Male Apostles in a Gay Marriage?

Post by PhilosopherJay »

Hi beowulf,

Thank you for this. This is more evidence that Romans was not written by the Pauline writer who wrote the other epistles in the "authentic" corpus. He appears to be unaware of Paul's ban on women talking in church let alone being a deacon.

I wonder about the relationship of Phoebe to Phoebus. Apollo was known as Phoebus and his sister Artemis was known as Phoebe. One can easily imagine a scenario where Apollos goes to Corinth and starts a house church in the port city of Cenchreae. Editors see that this gives Apollos too much credit for founding the church at Corinth, so they change the name to Phoebus to disguise it. Of course, it is easy to guess that Phoebus is the apostle Apollos, so they have to change Phoebus to Phoebe to obscure the connection even more.

Romans also presents a male/female puzzle at 16.7: "Greet Andronicus and Junia, my fellow Jews, who were in prison with me. They are highly respected among the apostles and became followers of Christ before I did."

It is debated if the name is Junia a female or Junias a male.

Warmly,

Jay Raskin
beowulf wrote:Romans
“16-1 I commend to you our sister Phoebe, a deacon of the church at Cenchreae, 2 so that you may welcome her in the Lord as is fitting for the saints, and help her in whatever she may require from you, for she has been a benefactor of many and of myself as well.”

Warmly,

Jay Raskin

Phoebe was a prominent member of the church, actively involved in the ministry [a deacon], she was planning a trip to Rome and she was a generous donor which explains why Paul did not need to be wealthy to travel; the Pauline ministry had financial support from men and women.



“3 Greet Prisca and Aquila, who work with me in Christ Jesus, 4 and who risked their necks for my life, to whom not only I give thanks, but also all the churches of the Gentiles”

In 3, Paul conveys greetings to the missionary wife-and-husband team who had most likely returned to Rome after Claudius’s decree of banishment lapsed at his death. [54 ad]
Last edited by PhilosopherJay on Mon Mar 10, 2014 6:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
beowulf
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Re: Aquila and Prisca Two Male Apostles in a Gay Marriage?

Post by beowulf »

Hi Philosopher Jay
Thank you and warm greetings,


1 Cor 16
"19 The churches of Asia send greetings. Aquila and Prisca, together with the church in their house, greet you warmly in the Lord. 20 All the brothers and sisters* send greetings. Greet one another with a holy kiss."



Prisca and her husband use their house as a church and that means wealth and importance for the Christian community.
beowulf
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Re: Aquila and Prisca Two Male Apostles in a Gay Marriage?

Post by beowulf »

1Corinthians 14
“34women should be silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be subordinate, as the law also says. 35If there is anything they desire to know, let them ask their husbands at home.”

Is Cor 14:34 a saying of Paul’s or the face of the other church suddenly appearing like a jack in the box- the other church overruling Paul’s powerful and beautiful statement of Galatians 3:27-28?
“Galatians 3 27As many of you as were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28There is no longer Jew or Greek, there is no longer slave or free, there is no longer male and female; for all of you are one in Christ Jesus.”


Religions hate women –In 1 Cor 14:34 we hear the RCC and its masturbating, cruel priesthood. Did Paul wish them as a replacement for the law he detested?

The contradiction means religion cannot be trusted. The voter can rectify with relative ease, but the wrong of the church, mosque, and temple can be rectified only rarely.

PhilosopherJay wrote: .

4. Paul forbids women to even speak in Christian meetings in Corinthians 14.34, "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law."
Women are to remain silent. They are not allowed to pray, recite hymns, speak in tongues or make prophesies as the men do in meetings. Paul does not make any exceptions. It is incredible to imagine he would have allowed a woman to be an apostle. If Prisca is not allowed to speak when Christians meet, how can she be an apostle? If Prisca and Aquila were both man, this would not be a problem.


7. In 3.Galatians.27, Paul writes, "28There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." Thus he abolishes sexual difference between males and females. As there is no longer any difference between male and female, it follows logically that members of the church should marry men just as they marry women.

Warmly,

Jay Raskin
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arnoldo
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Re: Aquila and Prisca Two Male Apostles in a Gay Marriage?

Post by arnoldo »

PhilosopherJay wrote:Hi All,

I propose that Aquila and Prisca (AKA Priscilla), the man and wife mentioned in 1 Corinthians, Romans and Acts, were actually a gay married couple. Here is some of the evidence.

1. These are strange names considering that the text calls Aquila a Jew from Pontus. Aquila is Latin for "eagle" and Prisca is feminine for prescus, Latin for "ancient." A dialect of Greek was spoken in Pontus and the names are meaningless in Greek. They have nothing to do with Judaism. The Eagle was the ensign of the Roman legion. The Eagle was associated with Zeus and Jupiter. Also the Eagle was associated with the apotheosis of the Roman Emperors, the enrollment of a mortal among the gods. "Eagle" and "Ancient" seem to be nicknames. The fact that Priscilla has a feminine nickname does not mean the person was a woman. As the wife of a man in a marriage, he might well be called by a feminine nickname. Remember the Lou Reed song "Walk on the Wild Side"
Holly came from Miami F.L.A.
Hitch-hiked her way across the U.S.A.
Plucked her eyebrows on the way
Shaved her legs and then he was a she
2. Aquila and Prisca, according to Acts and Romans, travel from Pontus to Rome, from Rome to Corinth, from Corinth to Ephesus and from Ephesus back to Rome. It would have been extremely unusual for a man to travel so much with his female wife. Women were supposed to take care of the household. That was their primary responsibility. They normally stayed at home while their husbands traveled. Travel was expensive and dangerous. There were no police forces, so if a woman was kidnapped and abused, the husband could only sue in the law courts to get her back.
Except for exceptional cases, such as Caesar bringing Cleopatra to Rome with him, women did not normally travel long distances with their husbands in the First Century in the Roman Empire.

3. Aquila and Prisca are both described as "Tent-Makers," in Acts 18:3, "And because he was of the same craft, he stayed with them, and worked: for by their occupation they were tentmakers."
It would have been extremely unusual for a man and women to have the same job. Most occupations were segregated by sex. Given the rough and heavy materials that tent-makers would have had to work with, it is hard to imagine a woman being allowed to do such a job. If Prisca and Aquila are really two men, this would not be a problem at all.

4. Paul forbids women to even speak in Christian meetings in Corinthians 14.34, "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law."
Women are to remain silent. They are not allowed to pray, recite hymns, speak in tongues or make prophesies as the men do in meetings. Paul does not make any exceptions. It is incredible to imagine he would have allowed a woman to be an apostle. If Prisca is not allowed to speak when Christians meet, how can she be an apostle? If Prisca and Aquila were both man, this would not be a problem.

5. Sometimes the name Prisca is used before the name Aquila. It would have been extremely unusual to give the woman's name before her husband's name. If these were two men it would not have mattered which name was used first.
Note from Wikipedia article "Priscilla and Aquila" (Retrieved March 10, 2014: They are mentioned six times in four different books of the New Testament. They are always named as a couple and never individually. Of those six references, Priscilla's name is mentioned first three times, which is conspicuously unusual for such a male-dominant society.[2][4] Throughout Scripture, the man is usually mentioned first; e.g., Adam and Eve, Ananias and Sapphira, making the three appearances of Priscilla's name first a notable exception.

6. Passage 18.26-27 reads: "He began to speak boldly in the synagogue, but when Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they took him home and explained God's way to him more accurately.
When Apollos wanted to cross over to Achaia, the brothers wrote to the disciples there, urging them to welcome him. On his arrival he greatly helped those who, through God's grace, had believed."
The term "Brothers" almost certainly refers to Prisca and Aquila. They are the only people speaking with him in the previous sentence and they have just come from Corinth. There is no reason for the other "brothers" of Ephesus to want him to go there.

7. In 3.Galatians.27, Paul writes, "28There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." Thus he abolishes sexual difference between males and females. As there is no longer any difference between male and female, it follows logically that members of the church should marry men just as they marry women.

Warmly,

Jay Raskin
Lou Reed ain't got nothing on Jim Morrision relative to the situation in Corinth. Some of the spoken lyrics to The End can be interpreted in light of what Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians 5:1-2.



Jerome Murphy O'Conner writes that the some Corinthians took the message given to the Galatians that there is no more “male or female” and took it for license to walk on the wild side so to speak. Regarding the bit of “women keeping silent” O'Conner explains that this is most likely an interpolation however this sound like an adhoc argument IMHO.
PhilosopherJay
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Re: Aquila and Prisca Two Male Apostles in a Gay Marriage?

Post by PhilosopherJay »

Hi Arnoldo,

Thanks for the video. Always nice to hear the "oldies" again.

I have added three more reasons to believe that "Ancient" and "Eagle" were married gay men:

8. There is a vigorous debate regarding Romans 16:7 and the reference to an Apostle named either Junia (female) or Junias (male). The manuscript evidence is ambiguous. This indicates that early Christians disagreed if apostles could be female. Perhaps some Christians felt that it was better for Paul to be friends with a female than a gay male and changes Priscus to Prisca/Priscilla.

9. The writer says explicitly in 1. Corinthians 7. "It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with women." Here is a clear statement against heterosexuality. Paul never says that it is good for a man not to have sexual relations with men. If he felt that all sexual relations were bad, why did he not say so? As it is, he condemns only heterosexual relations.

10. In 1. Corinthians 7.6, he says, "Now as a concession, not a command, I say this I wish that all were as I myself am. But each has his own gift from God, one of one kind and one of another." By "as myself am" The writer either means that he is homosexual or he abstains from sex. The text does not tell us which. Why is Paul being precocious about his sexuality or lack thereof?

Warmly,

Jay Raskin
robert j
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Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 5:01 pm

Re: Aquila and Prisca Two Male Apostles in a Gay Marriage?

Post by robert j »

Hi Jay,
PhilospherJay wrote,
"The writer says explicitly in 1. Corinthians 7. "It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with women." Here is a clear statement against heterosexuality. Paul never says that it is good for a man not to have sexual relations with men. If he felt that all sexual relations were bad, why did he not say so? As it is, he condemns only heterosexual relations."

Perhaps you missed chapter 6,
1 Corinthians 6:9-10;
"… Do not be deceived, neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor effeminate nor homosexuals nor thieves nor coveters nor drunkards nor revilers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."
robert j.
Last edited by robert j on Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
andrewcriddle
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Re: Aquila and Prisca Two Male Apostles in a Gay Marriage?

Post by andrewcriddle »

PhilosopherJay wrote:
........................................................
8. There is a vigorous debate regarding Romans 16:7 and the reference to an Apostle named either Junia (female) or Junias (male). The manuscript evidence is ambiguous. This indicates that early Christians disagreed if apostles could be female. Perhaps some Christians felt that it was better for Paul to be friends with a female than a gay male and changes Priscus to Prisca/Priscilla.
The manuscripts read Junian. (A few read Julian probably due to the influence of Julia in verse 15)
Junian could be the accusative of either the extremely rare (maybe non existant) male name Junias or the reasonably common female name Junia.

Andrew Criddle
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