Could 'Irenaeus' Have Been Julius Sextus Africanus?

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
User avatar
DCHindley
Posts: 3411
Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2013 9:53 am
Location: Ohio, USA

Re: Could 'Irenaeus' Have Been Julius Sextus Africanus?

Post by DCHindley »

I cannot shake the feeling that the "desposynoi" (little despots) were actually Hasmoneans who were waiting for the day when they could again be returned to power in Judea. They were in competition with the Herodian desposynoi, who also have similar goals. This would explain why the little despots were spreading lies about Herod's ancestry, in order to - if possible - delegitimize the Herodians' as possessing bona-fide royal credentials. The Hasmoneans could say they were credentialed going back to the late 2nd century or early 1st century BCE (depending on how one looks at it).

So it does not make sense to have Africanus call descendants of the Lord Jesus "little despots." That would suggest that Jesus' family had despotic aspirations, something Christians had always denied. So, I don't think that what was attributed to the quasi-Christian Africanus was actually from a work that was dealing with reconciling the genealogies of Jesus in the Christian gospels.

This work about how Hasmonean royal aspirations were superior to Herodian counter claims may have been dragged into a discussion over how to reconcile the differing genealogies of Jesus in Matthew and Luke. Somehow it must have got garbled in transmission, maybe with a reputation greater than deserved if the garbled form in which it was available was authentic. Someone, maybe Eusebius, maybe another earlier writer that Eusebius draws from, rationalized it away in the weird way it has come down to us. When it came time to put a name to the author of this treatise, "Africanus" seemed like a good choice, as he probably did write about the genealogies of Jesus.

DCH (lunch over, boss)
Secret Alias
Posts: 18362
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2015 8:47 am

Re: Could 'Irenaeus' Have Been Julius Sextus Africanus?

Post by Secret Alias »

Sure. I can't tell you that my possibility is 'more right' or than yours. I was reading a political article which was saying that we live in an age of 'what feels right' rather than is right. Maybe that's the same thing here and everywhere in our field of study. How you make the evidence 'fit best' to make it feel 'most right' to the most people.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
User avatar
DCHindley
Posts: 3411
Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2013 9:53 am
Location: Ohio, USA

Re: Could 'Irenaeus' Have Been Julius Sextus Africanus?

Post by DCHindley »

Secret Alias wrote: Wed Jul 25, 2018 11:08 am Sure. I can't tell you that my possibility is 'more right' or than yours. I was reading a political article which was saying that we live in an age of 'what feels right' rather than is right. Maybe that's the same thing here and everywhere in our field of study. How you make the evidence 'fit best' to make it feel 'most right' to the most people.
The true situation is that everyone throughout history was really Jeffrey Gibson, so it doesn't matter whether someone thought a work about Hasmonean despots was by the Christian Africanus, or was actually by this Christian Africanus because the actual author *and* the Christian Africanus were the self-same J. Gibson. This was established by armchair scholars all over the globe who participated on Crosstalk2 (Xtalk) and FRDB in the late 90s and early 100's of the 20th century (RIP).

I know, I know, you want it to be the other way around. If that's what feels right to you, let it be 'most right' to you ...

DCH
User avatar
Peter Kirby
Site Admin
Posts: 8016
Joined: Fri Oct 04, 2013 2:13 pm
Location: Santa Clara
Contact:

Re: Could 'Irenaeus' Have Been Julius Sextus Africanus?

Post by Peter Kirby »

Gibsonology wins the game by KO.

Time to shut it all down, folks.
"... almost every critical biblical position was earlier advanced by skeptics." - Raymond Brown
User avatar
DCHindley
Posts: 3411
Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2013 9:53 am
Location: Ohio, USA

Re: Could 'Irenaeus' Have Been Julius Sextus Africanus?

Post by DCHindley »

Peter Kirby wrote: Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:26 pm Gibsonology wins the game by KO.

Time to shut it all down, folks.
Awww, shucks! :ugeek:
Post Reply