צביוני and the Origin of the Ebionites

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Secret Alias
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צביוני and the Origin of the Ebionites

Post by Secret Alias »

I've always thought the Ebionites were a non-existent sect. The connection with the poor in Qumran however has always kept this bit of stupidity going. The facts are that צביוני in a general sense 'could' be mistaken as a name of a sect and the letter tsadi resembles the alef. But what is more striking is the fact that I think that the term צביוני might have some connection to the divine announcement at the beginning of the (Jewish Christian) gospel when Jesus is baptized by John
And behold, a voice from heaven, which said, This is my beloved Son, with whom I am pleased
The term for I am pleased is closely related in the Peshitta - ܐܨܛܒܝܬ from the root צבי to will, desire. But the variations in the line all go back to the underlying idea I think that Jesus is the 'desired one' - a title associated by Muslims with the Hebrew root of Muhammad. I even think the very idea of 'sect' deriving its origin from the Greek 'to chose' might go back to this same Aramaic root as 'to will' often has the sense of 'to choose.' There is something here, I just can't put my finger on what.

Another example of the messianic implications of the terminology
א"ר אלעזר מתים שבחוץ לארץ אינם חיים שנאמר (יחזקאל כו, כ) ונתתי צבי בארץ חיים ארץ שצביוני בה מתיה חיים שאין צביוני בה אין מתיה חיים

Rabbi Elazar said: The dead of the lands outside of Eretz Yisrael will not come alive and be resurrected in the future, as it is stated: “And I will set glory [tzvi] in the land of the living” (Ezekiel 26:20). This teaches that with regard to a land which contains My desire [tzivyoni], its dead will come alive; however, with regard to a land which does not contain My desire, i.e., outside of Eretz Yisrael, its dead will not come alive.

מתיב ר' אבא בר ממל (ישעיהו כו, יט) יחיו מתיך נבלתי יקומון מאי לאו יחיו מתיך מתים שבא"י נבלתי יקומון מתים שבחוץ לארץ ומאי ונתתי צבי בארץ חיים אנבוכד נצר הוא דכתיב דאמר רחמנא מייתינא עלייהו מלכא דקליל כי טביא

Rabbi Abba bar Memel raised an objection from a different verse: “Your dead shall live; my dead bodies shall arise” (Isaiah 26:19). What, is it not the case that the phrase “Your dead shall live” is referring to the dead of Eretz Yisrael, whereas the subsequent phrase “My dead bodies shall arise” is referring to the dead of the lands outside of Eretz Yisrael? And if so, what is the meaning of the verse “And I will set glory [tzvi] in the land of the living”? This verse is written with regard to Nebuchadnezzar, as the Merciful One states: I will bring upon you a king who is as swift as a deer [tzvi].
Clearly the same passage was used by Sabbatai Tsevi (for obvious reasons) to bolster his messianic claims. But did this have some connection with the (Tz)ebionites? I think so.

And more recently:
After Rabbi Eliezer’s opinion that He made them swear by heaven and earth, the Midrash brings Rabbi Chanina’s opinion, that He made them swear by the Patriarchs and Matriarchs, and Rabbi Yehuda’s opinion, that He made them swear by circumcision. Then comes the Rabbis’ opinion: He made them swear by the Generation of Martyrdom. “By the tzvaos” – they did My will (tzivyoni) in the world, and I did My will with them. “Or by the deer of the fields” – they pour out their blood for the sanctification of My name like the blood of the gazelle and the blood of the deer. This is the meaning of the verse, “For on Your account we were killed all day long; we were considered like sheep to be slaughtered” (Tehillim 44:23).http://www.truetorahjews.org/maharal
or again more clearly:
With what did He make them swear? Rabbi Eliezer says: He made them swear by heaven and earth and by the animals of the field… Rabbi Chanina says: He made them swear by the Patriarchs, the Matriarchs and the Twelve Tribes… Rabbi Yehuda says: He made them swear by circumcision… The Rabbis say: He made them swear by the Generation of Martyrdom. “By the tzvaos (lit. gazelles)” – they did My will (tzivyoni) in the world, and I did My will with them. “Or by the deer of the fields” – they pour out their blood for the sanctification of My name like the blood of the gazelle and the blood of the deer. This is the meaning of the verse, “For on Your account we were killed all day long; we were considered like sheep to be slaughtered” (Tehillim 44:23). Rabbi Chiya bar Abba said: If someone were to say to me, give your life for the sanctification of the name of the Holy One, blessed is He, I would give it, but only if they would kill me quickly. But in the Generation of Martyrdom I would not be able to withstand the trial. What did they do in the Generation of Martyrdom? They brought balls of iron, made them white-hot in the fire and placed them under their armpits and burned their souls out of them. And they brought shells of reeds and placed them under their nails and burned their souls out of them.http://www.truetorahjews.org/siman20
I think the term 'Ebionites' (misunderstood because of misreading of a tsadi for an alef) = (tz)ivyoni goes back to a primitive class of Jewish Christian martyrs who like Jesus embodied 'God's will' on earth - cf. 'thy will be done as it is on earth as it is in heaven'
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
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Ben C. Smith
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Re: צביוני and the Origin of the Ebionites

Post by Ben C. Smith »

Secret Alias wrote: Tue May 15, 2018 5:30 pm I've always thought the Ebionites were a non-existent sect. The connection with the poor in Qumran however has always kept this bit of stupidity going. The facts are that צביוני in a general sense 'could' be mistaken as a name of a sect and the letter tsadi resembles the alef.
Are you trying to say that the key word in the Qumran scrolls begins with a tsade instead of with an aleph? Here is one passage:

1QpHab, column 12, lines 2-10a: 2 The interpretation of the word concerns the Wicked Priest, to pay him the 3 reward for what he did to the poor [אביונים], because Lebanon is 4 the Council [עצת] of the Community and the animals are the simple folk of Judah, those who observe 5 the Law. God will sentence him to destruction, ~ 6 exactly as he intended to destroy the poor [אביונים]. And as for what he says: «Owing to the blood 7 of the city and the violence (done to) the country» [Habakkuk 2.17]. Its interpretation: the city is Jerusalem 8 in which the /Wicked/ Priest performed repulsive acts and defiled 9 the Sanctuary of God. The violence (done to) the country are the cities of Judah which 10a he plundered of the possessions of the poor [אביונים].

Here is an image of this column:

1QpHab12.png
1QpHab12.png (489.66 KiB) Viewed 3961 times

That word starts with an aleph, not with a tsade. Contrast the first word of line 4, which has a tsade as the middle letter.

Unless I am misunderstanding your point here.
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Secret Alias
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Re: צביוני and the Origin of the Ebionites

Post by Secret Alias »

No I am not saying that. I am saying:

1. the Evyonim of Qumran are not a specific sect, they're just poor people
2. the Christian sect of the Ἐβιωναῖοι MIGHT be attributable to a misunderstanding or misreading

The only reason we take an interest in Evyonim of Qumran is because we've been preconditioned to 'look out' for the term as a sectarian association. I don't think the actual evidence from Qumran supports that contention.

There is very little explanation of what the Ἐβιωναῖοι are in the writings of the Church Fathers. The closest we get is Origen's claim they are 'poor in understanding.'
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
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Ben C. Smith
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Re: צביוני and the Origin of the Ebionites

Post by Ben C. Smith »

Secret Alias wrote: Tue May 15, 2018 7:26 pm No I am not saying that. I am saying:

1. the Evyonim of Qumran are not a specific sect, they're just poor people
2. the Christian sect of the Ἐβιωναῖοι MIGHT be attributable to a misunderstanding or misreading

The only reason we take an interest in Evyonim of Qumran is because we've been preconditioned to 'look out' for the term as a sectarian association. I don't think the actual evidence from Qumran supports that contention.
Okay, got it. Thanks. The Qumran instances that I have seen are suggestive, but they fall short of proof of the existence of a sect by that name.
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Secret Alias
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Re: צביוני and the Origin of the Ebionites

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אבונן דבגו שומיא יתקדש שימך תיתא מלכותך יתעביד צביונך : היך מא דבשומיא אוף על ארעא : לחמן דעתרין הב לן יומדין : ושבוק לן חובינין היך דאןף אנין שבקין לחיבנין : ולא תעיל יתן לנסיון : אלא פצי יתן מן בישא דדילך הי מלכותא וחילא ותשבוחתא לעלמיא אמן [The Palestinian Syriac Lectionary of the Gospels Gibson, Lewis https://archive.org/details/palestiniansyria00lagauoft]

your will, desire = צביונך
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
Secret Alias
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Re: צביוני and the Origin of the Ebionites

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A very early (notice the two powers) reference in the Talmud:

Then the Prince of the World [שר העולם] said to Him: 'Sovereign of the Universe! It [the earth] hath fulfilled Thy desire [צביונו] on behalf of this righteous man [Hezekiah]' But a heavenly Voice cried out, 'It is my secret, it is my secret.' To which the prophet rejoined, 'Woe is me, woe is me: how long [must we wait]? ' The heavenly Voice [again] cried out, 'The treacherous dealers have dealt treacherously; yea, the treacherous dealers have dealt very treacherously: which Raba - others say, R`Isaac - interpreted: until there come spoilers, and spoilers of the spoilers [Sanhedrin 94a]
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
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Re: צביוני and the Origin of the Ebionites

Post by Ethan »

The word is a status rather then an actual sect and relates too all the Biblical names that are prefixed אבי (Ἥβη) "one arrived at adolescence", cognates include ἠβαιόν ( Hbaion) "Small" Iuvenis "Youth" , Juventas and Juvenile.
https://vivliothikiagiasmatos.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/joseph-yahuda-hebrew-is-greek.pdf
Secret Alias
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Re: צביוני and the Origin of the Ebionites

Post by Secret Alias »

Hey mental case find somewhere else to unpack.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
Secret Alias
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Re: צביוני and the Origin of the Ebionites

Post by Secret Alias »

There seems to be a (faux) etymological connection here between 'deer' and 'slaughter'

טביתא mature gazelle, deer Com. Sf.1.a33 : wthwy ʾrpd tl l[..... w]ṣby wšʿl wʾrnb wšrn wṣdh may Arpad become a mound for ... and gazelle and fox and hare and cat and owl. TAD C1.1(Ahiqar) .168 : לא [ישא]ל [נמרא] שלם טביא להן למונק דמה ‏ the only reason a [panther?} greets a gazelle is to suck its blood. TgO Deut12:22 : בְרַם כְמָא דְמִתאֲכִיל בְסַר טַביָא וְאַילָא ‏ . PTMeg74.d:51[2] : עבד חבלין ותפש טביי ‏ he made ropes and caught deer. TN Deut15:22 : כבשרה דטבייה ‏ like the flesh of the deer. P Dt12:15 : ܛܒܝܐ‏ . BT Ket 111a(38) : מלכא דקליל כטביא ‏ a king who is swift as a deer.

טבח to slaughter Qumran, Gal, JBA. BT Ber 56a(15) : וטבחת תורא ולא אכלת מיניה מצערא דלבך ‏ you will slaughter an ox and will not eat from it because of the sorrow of your heart. (a) fig. of a weapon Syr.

2 to sprinkle or dash with blood Syr. IshLevit 76:10 : ܟܕ ܛܒܝܚ ܥܡ ܕܡܗ܂ ܐܝܟ ܗܠܝܢ ܕܟܪ̈ܝܗܝܢ ܒܣܘܪ̈ܓܐ‏ sprinkled with his blood, like those who suffer from hemorrhoids.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
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Re: צביוני and the Origin of the Ebionites

Post by Ethan »

The etymology is confirmed through examining the name PAUL which as two meanings
and hundreds of cognates . Ebion and Paul are synonyms .

1. Small, Youthful
2. Poor, worthless, Foolish, Lewdness, Folly

φαυλότης ( Phaulths) - meanness, poorness, badness
φαῦλος ( Phaulos) - Poor, worthless, Foolish, Lewdness, Folly

AUIL אויל "Foolish" h191
AULTI אולת "Folly" h200
OUL עול ' Folly, Badness h5765
OUL עול 'Baby, suckling, toddler 'h5764
OUIL עויל 'little children h5759
TPLE תפלה 'Folly' h347
NBL נבל 'Fool h5036
NBLTE נבלתה 'Lewdness h5040
TELE תהלה 'Folly 'h8417
OLUMIN עלומיו 'Youth h5934
OLME עלמה 'Young woman h5959
OLM עלם ' Young man h5958
OULL עולל 'Children, young grapes, act like a child, folly
OLE עלה 'young leaf
Fullon φύλλον ' Young Leaf
Ellos ἑλλός 'Young Deer, Fawn
Kallw κἄλλῳ ' Young fawn
Kalam καλάμη 'Young stalk
Clan ' Son ( Etruscan)
Epiphullis ἐπιφυλλίς 'Small grapes left for gleaners
Polos πῶλος ' Young Maiden , Foal , Colt, Filly
Filivs ' Young man, son
Filia ' young girl, daughter
pava ' young boy
Blastos βλαστός ' Young-shoot
Papals ' Grandson ( Etruscan)
AB אֵב ' Young, fruit, greening
ABIB אביב ' Tender, young, first-crops, the 'first' month of the ecclesiastical year , April
EBE Ἥβη ' Youthful prime, goddess of young men

Small - Original sense of "narrow, unimportant, folly.
https://vivliothikiagiasmatos.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/joseph-yahuda-hebrew-is-greek.pdf
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