צביוני and the Origin of the Ebionites

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
Secret Alias
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Re: צביוני and the Origin of the Ebionites

Post by Secret Alias »

is this a joke? Seriously. Paul and Ebion?
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
Secret Alias
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Re: צביוני and the Origin of the Ebionites

Post by Secret Alias »

The difference between the shitty waste of time argumentation of someone like Ethan and my unusual posting is summed up by my ability to find ancient witnesses to attest to what I am suggesting.
The Rabbis say: He [sc. God] adjured them by the generation of the great persecution. They are called zebaoth because they carried out My will (zibyoni) in the world and through them My will was executed; and HINDS OF THE FIELD because they poured out their blood for the sanctification of My Name . . . R. b. Abba said: If one should say to me, “Sacrifice your life for the sanctification of God's name,'' I am ready to do so, on condition only that they slay me at once. But I could not endure the tortures of the great persecution. What did they formerly do? They brought iron discs and made them red-hot and put them under their armpits till they expired. Or they brought needles and stuck them under their nails, till they expired [and there are other generations where they did more evil to us]. And we endured all of this which happened to us. [Midrash Shir Hashirim Rabbah, Parashah 2, Siman]
You see? There is growing evidence that Zivyioni/Evyoni is related to a lost terminology essentially meaning 'martyr' (= witness). In fact a martyr is one who testifies to God's will through his person. Same idea.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
Secret Alias
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Re: צביוני and the Origin of the Ebionites

Post by Secret Alias »

And look how early these sources are. They undoubtedly come from the second century; the same time as the reports of the Evyoni(m).
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
Secret Alias
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Re: צביוני and the Origin of the Ebionites

Post by Secret Alias »

Indeed we see according to Dominique Millet-Gérard that this understanding cross-pollinated in both (Alexandrian) Christian and Jewish sources. Commenting on the statement of Claudel that:
D'abord en invoquant l'interprétation traditionnelle, qui voit dans les « cerfs ou antilopes les patriarches, les prophètes [...] qui, comme en saillies rapides, soudaines, intermittentes, donnèrent avertissement du Sauveur à venir
Millet-Gérard notes:
Nous ne savons pas qui sont « les anciens commentateurs » ici invoqués par Claudel. Cette interprétation n'apparaît ni chez Origène, ni chez Menochius, ni chez Bossuet. En revanche, elle est midra- shique ! Voir Midrash rabbah, op. cit., p. 113 : « BI - ZEBAOTH ('by the gazelles') are the Patriarchs who carried out My will Çzibyoni) and through whom My will was executed ».
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
Secret Alias
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Re: צביוני and the Origin of the Ebionites

Post by Secret Alias »

Maimonides's Epistle on Martyrdom confirms what is already evident from the second century:
To the rabbis this verse seemed appropriate: / adjure you 0 maidens of Jerusalem, by gazelles or by hinds of the field [Song of Songs 2:7], 151 which means — / adjure you, 0 maidens of Jerusalem, the persecuted generations; by gazelles those who did for Me what I desired, and I did what they desired; "by the hinds of the field”—those who shed their blood for Me like the blood of the gazelles and the hinds, about whom it is said, It is for your sake that we are slain all day long |Ps 44:23].”
This last Psalm is of course used by Irenaeus to describe the period of persecution for Christians:
As it is written, for thy sake we are killed all the day long, we are counted as sheep for the slaughter."(7) But here the expression "all the day long" is put for all this time during which we suffer persecution, and are killed as sheep. As then this day does not signify one which consists of twelve hours, but the whole time during which believers in Christ suffer and are put to death for His sake, so also the year there mentioned does not denote one which consists of twelve months, but the whole time of faith during which men hear and believe the preaching of the Gospel, and those become acceptable to God who unite themselves to Him.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
Secret Alias
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Re: צביוני and the Origin of the Ebionites

Post by Secret Alias »

And its curious the way no explicit terminology or discussion of martyrdom really emerges until Origen. It's like there was a whole other culture before orthodox Christianity developed in what Eusebius later calls the golden age of Christianity viz. the Commodian period.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
Secret Alias
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Re: צביוני and the Origin of the Ebionites

Post by Secret Alias »

Origen identifies Jesus ('the Savior') with the gazelle - https://books.google.com/books?id=zrXZX ... le&f=false and later Origenists - https://books.google.com/books?id=IxrjC ... le&f=false The underlying context is the Song of Songs:
“My beloved is like a gazelle” (Song 2:9). Rabbi Yitzhaq said, “Just as this gazelle can be seen and then again hides itself, so the first Messiah [Moses] revealed himself to the Children of Israel and then again hid himself from them.”
The specific equation of gazelles with martyrs occurs in the Origenist Eusebius of Caesarea in his Commentary on Isaiah https://books.google.com/books?id=R7Q_D ... le&f=false
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
Secret Alias
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Re: צביוני and the Origin of the Ebionites

Post by Secret Alias »

This is quite interesting.

I adjure you, O daughters of Jerusalem, by the gazelles, and by the hinds of the field [בִּצְבָאוֹת, אוֹ, בְּאַיְלוֹת הַשָּׂדֶה], that ye awaken not, nor stir up love, until it please [Song 3:5]

Many modern interpreters take בִּצְבָאוֹת, אוֹ, בְּאַיְלוֹת הַשָּׂדֶה, “by gazelles or by the does of the field,” to be a circumlocution for “by (Yahweh) Sabaoth and by God Shadai אֱלֹהִים שַׁדַּי” (cf. Note 2:7.a-a. on the LXX). The coincidence is remarkable, and it is easy to see why interpreters have taken this as circumlocution https://books.google.com/books?id=hVErD ... es&f=false

The interplay brings us back to the idea of these martyrs being God's representatives, his 'witnesses,' as well as the old problem of the location Bethsaida which I have long identified with Jerusalem (via various legends noting that Solomon used demons (shida) to assist in its construction.

The impression I am getting is that Christianity developed from a worldview which saw angels and demons intermingling with human beings as we see with the War Scroll from Qumran. The kingdom of God or heaven on earth seems to be another core concept related to what we are discussing.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
Secret Alias
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Re: צביוני and the Origin of the Ebionites

Post by Secret Alias »

An interesting possibility from 1 Peter which might - at least according to theory - go back to an 'Ebionite' or Jewish Christian source. Notice the terminology very much approximates what we are suggesting here:
Dear friends, do not be surprised at the fiery ordeal that has come on you to test you, as though something strange were happening to you. But rejoice inasmuch as you participate in the sufferings of Christ, so that you may be overjoyed when his glory is revealed. If you are insulted because of the name of Christ, you are blessed, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests on you. If you suffer, it should not be as a murderer or thief or any other kind of criminal, or even as a meddler. However, if you suffer as a Christian, do not be ashamed, but praise God that you bear that name ... So then, those who suffer according to God’s will should commit themselves to their faithful Creator and continue to do good.
This is exactly what we are suggesting. By being made martyrs the individuals become Christs as they are conformed to God's will. Notice this is also at the core of the 'Ebionaean' description in the Philosophumena:
The Ebionaeans, however, acknowledge that the world was made by Him Who is in reality God, but they propound legends concerning the Christ similarly with Cerinthus and Carpocrates. They live conformably to the customs of the Jews, alleging that they are justified. according to the law, and saying that Jesus was justified by fulfilling the law. And therefore it was, (according to the Ebionaeans,) that (the Saviour) was named (the) Christ of God and Jesus, since not one of the rest (of mankind) had observed completely the law. For if even any other had fulfilled the commandments (contained) in the law, he would have been that Christ. And the (Ebionaeans allege) that they themselves also, when in like manner they fulfil (the law), are able to become Christs; for they assert that our Lord Himself was a man in a like sense with all (the rest of the human family).
It's very slight but it is IMHO an echo of a similar understanding albeit now with respect to 'the Law' rather than martyrdom. But there is an underlying similarity.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
Secret Alias
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Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2015 8:47 am

Re: צביוני and the Origin of the Ebionites

Post by Secret Alias »

Mark and Matthew preserve the core Ebionite idea I think (according to my thesis):

Whoever does the will of God is my brother, and sister, and mother.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
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