Why Pilate? Because of the "astral sea"

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Giuseppe
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Why Pilate? Because of the "astral sea"

Post by Giuseppe »

All this is reminiscent of C.W. Leadbeater in “The Christian Creed” (1898) where he proposed that “Pontius Pilate” was merely a historicization of the original Greek “pontus piletos” (dense sea). Thus “suffered under Pontius Pilate” should be interpreted as, “Jesus allowed himself to be limited by, and imprisoned in, astral matter” in the original Greek myth.

People scoff at such interpretations today, but such thinking would hardly be out of place for Philo or any first century Christian historicizer. Regardless, I think Detering is on to something.
https://vridar.org/2018/04/22/gnostic-i ... ment-85168
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.
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Joseph D. L.
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Re: Why Pilate? Because of the "astral sea"

Post by Joseph D. L. »

Just to discredit myself fully, I have thought of "Pontius" Pilate to be inferring Marcion, the mariner and heretic par excellence.

I do have a rather bizarre (convoluted?) theory that does tie the mariner/Odyssey metaphors and allegories together, even though I'm not a fan of D. R. MacDonald. Though I want to refrain from further speculating (?!!) until I have a better argument for it.
lsayre
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Re: Why Pilate? Because of the "astral sea"

Post by lsayre »

How does a 'dense sea' correlate to 'astral matter'? Isn't astral matter associated with the material of the heavens? Is there a link between the skies and the seas?
Giuseppe
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Re: Why Pilate? Because of the "astral sea"

Post by Giuseppe »

The astral matter is already another name for the sub-lunary realm, the famous 'outer space' of Carrierian memory.

But dr. Detering seems to have proved that the ''sea'' and the ''river'' are allegory of the same realm of decay and corruption and death, since both Moses and Joshua had to pass on the other shore etc.

So do 2 + 2 and the allegory of Pontius Pilate/''astral sea'' is not so stupid, afterall.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.
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Joseph D. L.
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Re: Why Pilate? Because of the "astral sea"

Post by Joseph D. L. »

lsayre wrote: Wed Apr 25, 2018 4:53 am How does a 'dense sea' correlate to 'astral matter'? Isn't astral matter associated with the material of the heavens? Is there a link between the skies and the seas?
It may be linked in this way:

In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. And God saw that the light was good. And God separated the light from the darkness. God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, the first day.

And God said, “Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.” And God made the expanse and separated the waters that were under the expanse from the waters that were above the expanse. And it was so. And God called the expanse Heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, the second day.

And God said, “Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear.” And it was so. 10 God called the dry land Earth, and the waters that were gathered together he called Seas. And God saw that it was good.

The "darkness" and the "warers" infer the same principle in many ancient cultures.

Prior to creation, there is only the chaotic waters of Nun, from which the Benben raises, in Egypt. In Greek mythology, there is the primordial darkness that bornes Chaos. In the Vedas, Brahmah floats upon an endless ocean, dreaming of creation. And in Babylon, the waters of Tiamat precedes creation.

In Genesis 1:1-10, God creates the earth (material realm) in the realm of darkness and the deep, by separating the "waters from the waters".
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Kapyong
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Re: Why Pilate? Because of the "astral sea"

Post by Kapyong »

Gday all,

Heracleon has this interesting comment :
Heracleon wrote:Fragment 40, on John 4:46-53 (In John 4:46, “So he came again to Cana in Galilee, where he had made the water wine. And at Capernaum there was an official whose child was ill.) The official was the Craftsman, for he himself ruled like a king over those under him. Because his domain is small and transitory, he was called an “official,” like a petty princeling who is set over a small kingdom by the universal king.
The “child” “in Capernaum” is one who is in the lower part of the Middle (i.e. of animate substance), which lies near the sea, that is, which is linked with matter."
And also :
Heracleon wrote:Fragment 11, on John 2:12 (In John 2:12, “After this he went down to Capernaum, with his mother and his brothers and his disciples; and there they stayed for a few days.”) The words, "After this he went down to Capernaum," indicate the beginning of a new dispensation, for "he went down" is not said idly. Capernaum, means these farthest-out parts of the world, the material realm into which he descended. And since the place was alien to him, he is not reported either to have done anything or said anything in it."
From http://gnosis.org/library/fragh.htm

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Kapyong
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Re: Why Pilate? Because of the "astral sea"

Post by Kapyong »

Gday all :)

C.W. Leadbeater was an unusual and controversial character. He died here in Perth, the funeral was at our local Liberal Catholic Church.

His source for 'pontus piletos' was apparently his occult vision of the ancient manuscripts (vision which he also used to investigate atomic structure for his book 'Occult Chemistry' with Annie Besant.)

If only he'd used that amazing vision to investigate the events in first century Jerusalem etc. ;)

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StephenGoranson
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Re: Why Pilate? Because of the "astral sea"

Post by StephenGoranson »

According to Antonio Frova, L'Iscrizione Di Ponzio Pilato A Cesarea (Rendiconti Istituto Lombardo, accademia di scienze e lettere, classe di lettere 95). Milan, 1961. Pp. 419–34, I plan and 2 plates, the inscription was discovered in an archaeological excavation found and photographed in reuse in situ.
Is anyone here claiming it is not a genuine ancient inscription? If so, why?
Giuseppe
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Re: Why Pilate? Because of the "astral sea"

Post by Giuseppe »

StephenGoranson wrote: Thu Apr 26, 2018 12:47 am According to Antonio Frova, L'Iscrizione Di Ponzio Pilato A Cesarea (Rendiconti Istituto Lombardo, accademia di scienze e lettere, classe di lettere 95). Milan, 1961. Pp. 419–34, I plan and 2 plates, the inscription was discovered in an archaeological excavation found and photographed in reuse in situ.
Is anyone here claiming it is not a genuine ancient inscription? If so, why?
Clearly Pilate is historical.

Here I am claiming that Pilate was chosen as the Roman governor who had to crucify Jesus only because his name works very well to allegorize the theological point that the Son of God was crucified really in the outer space, allegory of which is both the ''dense sea'' (ποντος πιλητος) and the Jordan crossed by the biblical Joshua.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.
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