The shortening of the days.

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Ben C. Smith
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The shortening of the days.

Post by Ben C. Smith »

In the synoptic apocalypse Jesus, obviously inspired by Daniel, predicts the onset of a great tribulation, indeed, of the greatest tribulation of all time:

Mark 13.19-20: 19 "For those days will be a time of tribulation such as has not occurred since the beginning of the creation which God created, until now, and never should. 20 And if the Lord had not shortened those days, all flesh would not have been saved; but for the sake of the elect, whom He chose, He shortened the days."

Matthew 24.21-22: 21 For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever should. 22 Unless those days had been cut short, all flesh would not have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.

Daniel 12.1-3: 1 "Now at that time Michael, the great prince who stands guard over the sons of your people, will arise. And there will be a time of distress such as never occurred since there was a nation until that time; and at that time your people, everyone who is found written in the book, will be rescued. 2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt. 3 And those who have insight will shine brightly like the brightness of the expanse of heaven, and those who lead the many to righteousness, like the stars forever and ever."

I have elsewhere noted that Mark 13.20 is in the past tense: the sense is that those days of tribulation were shortened, which is why not all flesh did perish.

Here and now, however, I wish to point out both (A) that the motif of shortening the days is pretty common in ancient Jewish literature and (B) that this particular instance of shortening the days differs from the other instances, which would include at the very least:

1 Enoch 80.2-4: 2 And in the days of the sinners the years shall be shortened, and their seed shall be tardy on their lands and fields, and all things on the earth shall alter and shall not appear in their time; and the rain shall be kept back and the heaven shall withhold it. 3 And in those times the fruits of the earth shall be backward, and shall not grow in their time, and the fruits of the trees shall be withheld in their time. 4 And the moon shall alter her order, and not appear at her time.

Wisdom of Sirach 36.8: 8 Hasten the day, and remember the appointed time, and let people recount thy mighty deeds.

4Q385, fragment 3, lines 1-7: 1 [...] under my grief. ~ [... and my heart] 2 [dis]turbs my soul. And the days will pass rapidly until [all the sons of] 3 man say, «Are not the days hastening on so that the children of Israel can inherit [their land?»] 4 And YHWH said to me: «I will not sh[u]n your face, Ezekiel; s[ee,] I measure [time and shorten] 5 the days and the years [...] 6 a little, as you said to [...] 7 [For the mou]th of YHWH has said these things.» [....]

1 Corinthians 7.29-31: 29 But this I say, brethren, the season has been shortened [ὁ καιρὸς συνεσταλμένος ἐστίν], so that from now on those who have wives should be as though they had none; 30 and those who weep, as though they did not weep; and those who rejoice, as though they did not rejoice; and those who buy, as though they did not possess; 31 and those who use the world, as though they did not make full use of it; for the scheme of this world is passing away [παράγει γὰρ τὸ σχῆμα τοῦ κόσμου τούτου].

Barnabas 4.3: 3 Τὸ τέλειον σκάνδαλον ἤγγικεν περὶ οὗ γέγραπται, ὡς Ἐνὼχ λέγει, «Εἰς τοῦτο γὰρ ὁ δεσπότης συντέτμηκεν τοὺς καιροὺς καὶ τὰς ἡμέρας, ἵνα ταχύνῃ ὁ ἠγαπημένος αὐτοῦ καὶ ἐπὶ τὴν κληρονομίαν ἥξει.» / 3 The final stumbling block is at hand, about which it has been written, just as Enoch says, "For this reason the Master has cut short the seasons and the days, that his beloved may hurry and arrive at his inheritance."

2 Baruch 20.1-2: 1 "Therefore behold! the days come, and the times shall hasten more than the former, and the seasons shall speed on more than those that are past, and the years shall pass more quickly than the present (years). 2 Therefore have I now taken away Zion, that I may the more speedily visit the world in its season."

2 Baruch 54.1: 1 And I besought the Mighty One, and said: "You alone, O Lord, know of aforetime the deep things of the world, and the things which befall in their times You bring about by Your word, and against the works of the inhabitants of the earth you do hasten the beginnings of the times, and the end of the seasons you alone know."

2 Baruch 83.1: 1 For the Most High will assuredly hasten His times, and He will assuredly bring on His hours.

4 Ezra 2.13: 13 Ask and you will receive; pray that your days may be few, that they may be shortened. The kingdom is already prepared for you; watch!

Talmud, Baba Metzia 85b: Elijah used to frequent Rabbi's academy. One day — it was New Moon — he was waiting for him, but he failed to come. Said he to him [the next day]: "Why didst thou delay?" He replied: "[I had to wait] until I awoke Abraham, washed his hands, and he prayed and I put him to rest again; likewise to Isaac and Jacob." "But why not awake them together?" "I feared that they would wax strong in prayer and bring the Messiah before his time."

What all these instances of shortening the days have in common is that the actual day in question, the day of the Lord or the end of all things, is apparently being made closer to the present time; the days are being cut short in the sense that there will be fewer of them between today and the last day.

This sense is entirely lacking in Matthew 24.21-22 = Mark 13.19-20. The days which are being cut short are not the days between today and the end but rather the days of the tribulation. This shortening may conceptually also hasten the end day, but it also may conceptually simply create a gap between the end of the tribulation and that day. That Mark 13.20 is in the past tense suggests the latter, so far as the gospel of Mark is concerned; the days of tribulation were cut short, creating an otherwise unexpected period of time after the tribulation but before the day of salvation, the coming of the Son of Man.

My hypothesis is that the author of Mark 13.20 thought of him/herself as living in that gap, looking back upon what he/she, like Josephus and Eusebius, regarded as the greatest such event of all time:

Josephus, Wars 0.1.1 §1-3: 1 Ἐπειδὴ τὸν Ἰουδαίων πρὸς Ῥωμαίους πόλεμον συστάντα μέγιστον οὐ μόνον τῶν καθ᾽ ἡμᾶς, σχεδὸν δὲ καὶ ὧν ἀκοῇ παρειλήφαμεν ἢ πόλεων πρὸς πόλεις ἢ ἐθνῶν ἔθνεσι συρραγέντων, οἱ μὲν οὐ παρατυχόντες τοῖς πράγμασιν, ἀλλ᾽ ἀκοῇ συλλέγοντες εἰκαῖα καὶ ἀσύμφωνα διηγήματα σοφιστικῶς ἀναγράφουσιν, 2 οἱ παραγενόμενοι δὲ ἢ κολακείᾳ τῇ πρὸς Ῥωμαίους ἢ μίσει τῷ πρὸς Ἰουδαίους καταψεύδονται τῶν πραγμάτων, περιέχει δὲ αὐτοῖς ὅπου μὲν κατηγορίαν ὅπου δὲ ἐγκώμιον τὰ συγγράμματα, τὸ δ᾽ ἀκριβὲς τῆς ἱστορίας οὐδαμοῦ, 3 προυθέμην ἐγὼ τοῖς κατὰ τὴν Ῥωμαίων ἡγεμονίαν Ἑλλάδι γλώσσῃ μεταβαλὼν ἃ τοῖς ἄνω βαρβάροις τῇ πατρίῳ συντάξας ἀνέπεμψα πρότερον ἀφηγήσασθαι Ἰώσηπος Ματθίου παῖς ἐξ Ἱεροσολύμων ἱερεύς, αὐτός τε Ῥωμαίους πολεμήσας τὰ πρῶτα καὶ τοῖς ὕστερον παρατυχὼν ἐξ ἀνάγκης. / 1 Whereas the war which the Jews made with the Romans has been the greatest of all those, not only that have been in our times, but, in a manner, of those that ever were heard of; both of those wherein cities have fought against cities, or nations against nations; while some men who were not concerned in the affairs themselves have gotten together vain and contradictory stories by hearsay, and have written them down after a sophistical manner; 2 and while those that were there present have given false accounts of things, and this either out of a humor of flattery to the Romans, or of hatred towards the Jews; and while their writings contain sometimes accusations, and sometimes encomiums, but no where the accurate truth of the facts; 3 I have proposed to myself, for the sake of such as live under the government of the Romans, to translate those books into the Greek tongue, which I formerly composed in the language of our country, and sent to the Upper Barbarians; 3 I am Josephus, the son of Matthias, by birth a Hebrew, a priest also, and one who at first fought against the Romans myself, and was forced to be present at what was done afterwards.

Eusebius, History of the Church 3.7.1-2: 1 It is fitting to add to these accounts the true prediction of our Savior in which he foretold these very events. 2 His words are as follows: "Woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! But pray that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the Sabbath day. For there shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."

The coming of the Son of Man was still future, but the tribulation, mercifully shortened, was past:

Tribulation.png
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Ben.
Last edited by Ben C. Smith on Tue May 01, 2018 5:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The shortening of the days.

Post by DCHindley »

Ben,

Mark 13:20 καὶ εἰ μὴ ἐκολόβωσεν κύριος τὰς ἡμέρας
Mark 13:20 And if the Lord had not shortened the days

Matthew 24:22 καὶ εἰ μὴ ἐκολοβώθησαν αἱ ἡμέραι ἐκεῖναι
Matthew 24:22 And if those days had not been shortened

As you may already know, I've been slowly compiling some data on how early church writers dealt with Dan 7 & 9, and one verse seems to stand out in need of exploration.

I mean 9:24 Theodotion:

24a Ἑβδομήκοντα ἑβδομάδες συνετμήθησαν
24b ἐπὶ τὸν λαόν σου
24c καὶ ἐπὶ τὴν πόλιν τὴν ἁγίαν σου ...

24a Seventy weeks have been cut short
24b for your people
24c and for the holy city: ...

The Old Greek had

24 Ἑβδομήκοντα ἑβδομάδες ἐκρίθησαν
24b ἐπὶ τὸν λαόν σου
24c καὶ ἐπὶ τὴν πόλιν Σιων ...

24a "Seventy weeks have been decided
24b for your people
24c and for the city, Sion: ...

So, my exploratory opinion was that the author(s) of the little apocalypse passages in Mk 13 & Matt 24 worked from Theodotion's translation of Daniel. Unfortunately, different words entirely. Why (t)he(y) might have interpreted it so I cannot say, but it does make a certain amount of sense.

The point in time when "70 week/years" would end had been decreed long ago. In other words - predestined. Then they go on (both Daniel as well as Mk 13 & Mt 24) to cryptically describe events that would happen in that period, as well as what would happen when the end of that period came, and I would assume that these things were also predestined by God.

The Epistle of Barnabas speaks similarly, also seemingly using Theodotion's translation:

4:3a Τὸ τέλειον σκάνδαλον ἤγγικεν
4:3b περὶ οὗ γέγραπται
4:3c ὡς Ἐνὼχ λέγει
4:3d Εἰς τοῦτο γὰρ ὁ δεσπότης συντέτμηκεν
4:3e τοὺς καιροὺς καὶ τὰς ἡμέρας
4:3f ἵνα ταχύνῃ ὁ ἠγαπημένος αὐτοῦ
4:3g καὶ ἐπὶ τὴν κληρονομίαν ἥξει

Chapter 4:3a ...The final stumbling-block approaches,
4:3b concerning which it is written,
4:3c as Enoch [Daniel]32 says,
4:3d “For for this end the Lord has cut short
4:3e the times and the days,
4:3f that His Beloved may hasten;
4:3g and He will come to the inheritance.”

However, here the author of the Ep. of Barnabas emphasizes the end of that 70 week era, when "the anointed prince (Messiah the prince) would establish a blessed kingdom of God on earth, like the author(s) of Mk 13 & Mt 24.

Alternately, I am not so sure that this "cutting-short" talk relates to the prince who will be "cut off" in Dan 9:26, which is often linked to the death of Jesus Christ -

Old Greek:

26a καὶ μετὰ ἑπτὰ καὶ ἑβδομήκοντα καὶ ἑξήκοντα δύο
26b ἀποσταθήσεται χρῖσμα
26c καὶ οὐκ ἔσται

26a And after seven and seventy and sixty-two weeks,
26b an anointing will be removed
26c and will not be.

Theodotion:

26a καὶ μετὰ τὰς ἑβδομάδας τὰς ἑξήκοντα δύο
26b ἐξολεθρευθήσεται χρῖσμα
26c καὶ κρίμα οὐκ ἔστιν ἐν αὐτῷ

26a And after the sixty-two weeks,
26b an anointing will be destroyed,
26c and there is no judgment in it.

Different words ... go together like apples & oranges

DCH
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Re: The shortening of the days.

Post by Ben C. Smith »

Good points, David. I am not sure how it all fits together. It is still pretty confusing overall, as well, how different Theodotion and the LXX are when it comes to Daniel.
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Re: The shortening of the days.

Post by DCHindley »

Ben C. Smith wrote: Sat Apr 07, 2018 5:09 am Good points, David. I am not sure how it all fits together. It is still pretty confusing overall, as well, how different Theodotion and the LXX are when it comes to Daniel.
Let's suppose that the Old Greek translation of Daniel preceded Theodotion's translation that Christians later came to prefer. The OG dislocated the entire second half of (Hebrew) Daniel 9:25, placing it in the middle of (Heb.) Dan 9:27 in a context that suggests it refers to time close to the translator where there is already a Judean kingdom that is temporarily under threat. It also adds in vs 26 that speaks of "a king over (the) nations" and associates it with the 62 week/years.

Theodotion seems much closer to the original word order and meaning than is the OG. That was why I had suggested a while ago that the OG was translated (here at least) to support an agenda, possibly Vespasian's propaganda minister's (Josephus) assertions that Dan 9 referred to the rise of his rule. I think if we read closely we'll find that Josephus comes short of calling Vespasian the/a Messiah. He is rather the "ruler who is to come" who will destroy the city & temple.

Very Confusing.*

DCH

While I think I posted something like this before, here is the comparative table of Dan 7:24-27 showing the Hebrew/RSV, OG/NETS & Theodotion/NETS side by side, with the displaced section sort of set back into its original Hebrew order. The OG does seem to be reflecting something akin to what Josephus claimed about Vespasian (and Titus).

*
WTT Masoretic (Hebrew)
RSV (English translation)
Old Greek (translation of Hebrew)
NETS (English translation of OG translation)
Theodotion's (greek translation of Hebrew)
NETS (English translation of Theodotion's Greek translation)
24a ‏שָׁבֻעִ֨ים שִׁבְעִ֜ים נֶחְתַּ֥ךְ 24a "Seventy weeks (of years) are decreed [or cut off] 24 Ἑβδομήκοντα ἑβδομάδες ἐκρίθησαν 24a "Seventy weeks have been decided 24a Ἑβδομήκοντα ἑβδομάδες συνετμήθησαν 24a "Seventy weeks have been cut short
24b עַֽל־עַמְּךָ֣׀ 24b concerning your people 24b ἐπὶ τὸν λαόν σου 24b for your people 24b ἐπὶ τὸν λαόν σου 24b for your people
24c וְעַל־עִ֣יר קָדְשֶׁ֗ךָ 24c and your holy city, 24c καὶ ἐπὶ τὴν πόλιν Σιων 24c and for the city, Sion: 24c καὶ ἐπὶ τὴν πόλιν τὴν ἁγίαν σου 24c and for the holy city:
24d לְכַלֵּ֨א הַפֶּ֜שַׁע 24d to finish the transgression, 24d συντελεσθῆναι τὴν ἁμαρτίαν 24d for sin to be consummated 24d τοῦ συντελεσθῆναι ἁμαρτίαν 24d for sin to be consummated
24e ולחתם וּלְהָתֵ֤ם חטאות חַטָּאת֙ 24e to put an end to sin, 24e καὶ τὰς ἀδικίας σπανίσαι 24e and to make iniquities scarce 24e καὶ τοῦ σφραγίσαι ἁμαρτίας 24e and to seal sins
24f וּלְכַפֵּ֣ר עָוֹ֔ן 24f and to atone for iniquity, 24f καὶ ἀπαλεῖψαι τὰς ἀδικίας 24f and to blot out iniquities 24f καὶ ἀπαλεῖψαι τὰς ἀνομίας 24f and to atone for iniquities
24g 24g 24g 24g 24g καὶ τοῦ ἐξιλάσασθαι ἀδικίας 24g and expunge the lawlessness
24h 24h 24h καὶ διανοηθῆναι τὸ ὅραμα 24h and to comprehend the vision 24h 24h
24i וּלְהָבִ֖יא צֶ֣דֶק עֹֽלָמִ֑ים 24i to bring in everlasting righteousness, 24i καὶ δοθῆναι δικαιοσύνην αἰώνιον 24i and for everlasting righteousness to be given 24i καὶ τοῦ ἀγαγεῖν δικαιοσύνην αἰώνιον 24i and to bring everlasting righteousness
24j וְלַחְתֹּם֙ חָז֣וֹן 24j to seal both vision 24j καὶ συντελεσθῆναι τὸ ὅραμα 24j and for the vision to be consummated 24j καὶ τοῦ σφραγίσαι ὅρασιν 24j and to seal vision
24k וְנָבִ֔יא 24k and prophet, 24k 24k 24j καὶ προφήτην 24k and prophet
24l וְלִמְשֹׁ֖חַ קֹ֥דֶשׁ קָֽדָשִֽׁים׃ 24l and to anoint a most holy place. 24l καὶ εὐφρᾶναι ἅγιον ἁγίων. 24l and to gladden a holy of holies. 24 καὶ τοῦ χρῖσαι ἅγιον ἁγίων. 24l and to anoint a holy of holies.
‎25a ‏וְתֵדַ֨ע וְתַשְׂכֵּ֜ל 25a Know therefore and understand 25a καὶ γνώσῃ καὶ διανοηθήσῃ 25a And you shall know and understand 25a καὶ γνώσῃ καὶ συνήσεις 25a And you shall know and shall understand:
25b 25b 25b καὶ εὐφρανθήσῃ 25b and will rejoice 25b 25b
25c מִן־מֹצָ֣א דָבָ֗ר 25c that from the going forth of the word 25c καὶ εὑρήσεις προστάγματα ἀποκριθῆναι 25c and will discover ordinances to respond, 25c ἀπὸ ἐξόδου λόγου τοῦ ἀποκριθῆναι 25c from the going forth of the word to respond to
25d לְהָשִׁיב֙ וְלִבְנ֤וֹת יְרֽוּשָׁלִַ֙ם֙ 25d to restore and build Jerusalem 25d καὶ οἰκοδομήσεις Ιερουσαλημ 25d and you will build Ierousalem 25d καὶ τοῦ οἰκοδομῆσαι Ιερουσαλημ 25d and to rebuild Ierousalem
25e 25e 25e πόλιν κυρίῳ. 25e as a city for (the) Lord. 25e 25e
25f עַד־מָשִׁ֣יחַ נָגִ֔יד 25f to the coming of an anointed one, a prince, 26g καὶ βασιλεία ἐθνῶν 26g And a king of nations 25f ἕως χριστοῦ ἡγουμένου 25f until an anointed leader,
25g שָׁבֻעִ֖ים שִׁבְעָ֑ה 25g there shall be seven weeks. 27g καὶ μετὰ ἑπτὰ 27g even after seven 25g ἑβδομάδες ἑπτὰ 25g [there will be] seven weeks
27h καὶ ἑβδομήκοντα καιροὺς 27h and seventy times
25h וְשָׁבֻעִ֞ים שִׁשִּׁ֣ים וּשְׁנַ֗יִם 25h Then for sixty-two weeks 27i καὶ ἑξήκοντα δύο ἔτη 27i and sixty-two years 25h καὶ ἑβδομάδες ἑξήκοντα δύο 25h and sixty-two weeks,
25i תָּשׁוּב֙ וְנִבְנְתָה֙ 25i it shall be built again 27c καὶ πάλιν ἐπιστρέψει καὶ ἀνοικοδομηθήσεται 27c and it [i.e., the city] will return again and be rebuilt 25i καὶ ἐπιστρέψει καὶ οἰκοδομηθήσεται 25i and it will return, and will be built
25j רְח֣וֹב 25j with squares 27d εἰς πλάτος 27d with great breadth 25j πλατεῖα 25j streets
25k וְחָר֔וּץ 25k and moat (salient), 27e καὶ μῆκος 27e and height. 25k καὶ τεῖχος 25k and a wall [...],
25l וּבְצ֖וֹק הָעִתִּֽים׃ 25l but in a troubled time. 27f καὶ κατὰ συντέλειαν καιρῶν 27f And at the consummation of times 25l καὶ ἐκκενωθήσονται οἱ καιροί. 25l and the seasons will be emptied out.
‎26a‏ וְאַחֲרֵ֤י 26a And after 26a καὶ μετὰ 26a And after 26a καὶ μετὰ 26a And after
26b הַשָּׁבֻעִים֙ 26b the weeks 26b ἑπτὰ 26b seven 26b τὰς ἑβδομάδας 26b the weeks
26c 26c 26c καὶ ἑβδομήκοντα 26c and seventy 26c 26c
‎26d שִׁשִּׁ֣ים וּשְׁנַ֔יִם 26d sixty and two , 26d καὶ ἑξήκοντα δύο 26d and sixty-two, 26d τὰς ἑξήκοντα δύο 26d the sixty-two,
26e יִכָּרֵ֥ת מָשִׁ֖יחַ 26e an anointed one shall be cut off, 26e ἀποσταθήσεται χρῖσμα 26e an anointing will be removed 26e ἐξολεθρευθήσεται χρῖσμα 26e an anointing will be destroyed,
26f וְאֵ֣ין ל֑וֹ 26f and [it] shall have nothing; 26f καὶ οὐκ ἔσται 26f and [it] will not be. 26f καὶ κρίμα οὐκ ἔστιν ἐν αὐτῷ 26f and there is no judgment in it.
26h וְהָעִ֨יר וְהַקֹּ֜דֶשׁ יַ֠שְׁחִית 26h and he shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. 26h φθερεῖ τὴν πόλιν καὶ τὸ ἅγιον 26h [he] will demolish the city and the sanctuary 26h καὶ τὴν πόλιν καὶ τὸ ἅγιον διαφθερεῖ 26h And the city and the sanctuary it will destroy
26i עַ֣ם נָגִ֤יד הַבָּא֙ 26i the people of the prince who is to come 26i μετὰ τοῦ χριστοῦ 26i along with the anointed one, 26i σὺν τῷ ἡγουμένῳ τῷ ἐρχομένῳ 26i along with the leader who is to come.
26j וְקִצּ֣וֹ בַשֶּׁ֔טֶף 26j Its end shall come with a flood, 26j καὶ ἥξει ἡ συντέλεια αὐτοῦ μετ᾽ ὀργῆς 26j and his consummation will come with wrath 26j καὶ ἐκκοπήσονται ἐν κατακλυσμῷ 26j And they will be cut off by a flood,
26k וְעַד֙ קֵ֣ץ מִלְחָמָ֔ה נֶחֱרֶ֖צֶת 26k and to the end there shall be war; 26k καὶ ἕως καιροῦ συντελείας 26k even until the time of consummation. 26k καὶ ἕως τέλους πολέμου 26k to the finish of war
26l שֹׁמֵמֽוֹת׃ 26l desolations. 26l ἀπὸ πολέμου πολεμηθήσεται. 26l He will be attacked through war. 26l συντετμημένου τάξει ἀφανισμοῖς. 26l there will be annihilations.
‎27a ‏וְהִגְבִּ֥יר בְּרִ֛ית לָרַבִּ֖ים 27a And he shall make a strong covenant with many 27a καὶ δυναστεύσει ἡ διαθήκη εἰς πολλούς 27a And the covenant will prevail for many, 27a καὶ δυναμώσει διαθήκην πολλοῖς 27a And it will strengthen a covenant with many,
27b שָׁב֣וּעַ אֶחָ֑ד 27b for one week 27b 27b 27b ἑβδομὰς μία 27b one week,
27j 27j 27j ἕως καιροῦ συντελείας πολέμου 27j until the time of the consummation of the war 27j 27j
27k 27k 27k καὶ ἀφαιρεθήσεται ἡ ἐρήμωσις ἐν τῷ κατισχῦσαι τὴν διαθήκην ἐπὶ πολλὰς ἑβδομάδας 27k even desolation will be removed when the covenant prevails for many weeks. 27k 27k
27h וַחֲצִ֨י הַשָּׁב֜וּעַ 27l and for half of the week 27l καὶ ἐν τῷ τέλει τῆς ἑβδομάδος 27l And in half of the week 27l καὶ ἐν τῷ ἡμίσει τῆς ἑβδομάδος 27h and by half of the week
27i יַשְׁבִּ֣ית׀ זֶ֣בַח וּמִנְחָ֗ה 27m he shall cause to cease sacrifice and offering; 27m ἀρθήσεται ἡ θυσία καὶ ἡ σπονδή 27m the sacrifice and the libation will cease, 27m ἀρθήσεταί μου θυσία καὶ σπονδή 27m sacrifice and libation will cease,
27j וְעַ֨ל כְּנַ֤ף שִׁקּוּצִים֙ מְשֹׁמֵ֔ם 27n and upon the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, 27n καὶ ἐπὶ τὸ ἱερὸν βδέλυγμα τῶν ἐρημώσεων ἔσται 27n and in the temple an abomination of desolations there will be 27n καὶ ἐπὶ τὸ ἱερὸν βδέλυγμα τῶν ἐρημώσεων 27n and in the temple an abomination of desolations [there will be]
27k וְעַד־כָּלָה֙ וְנֶ֣חֱרָצָ֔ה 27o until the decreed end 27o ἕως συντελείας 27o until the consummation [...], 27o καὶ ἕως συντελείας καιροῦ 27o even until a consummation of a season,
27l תִּתַּ֖ךְ עַל־שֹׁמֵֽם׃ 27p is poured out on the desolator." 27p καὶ συντέλεια δοθήσεται ἐπὶ τὴν ἐρήμωσιν. 27p and a consummation will be given for the desolation." 27p συντέλεια δοθήσεται ἐπὶ τὴν ἐρήμωσιν. 27p and a consummation will be given for the desolation."

There are many layers there, making this a supersized Dagwood Bumstead sandwich of meaning. Enjoy!
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toejam
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Re: The shortening of the days.

Post by toejam »

^Quick question, DC...

Is the "Old Greek" in your table there what is generally considered synonymous with the LXX, or is this something else again?
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DCHindley
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Re: The shortening of the days.

Post by DCHindley »

toejam wrote: Sat Apr 07, 2018 3:17 pm ^Quick question, DC...

Is the "Old Greek" in your table there what is generally considered synonymous with the LXX, or is this something else again?
Technically, the term "Lxx" or "Seventy" (from legendary number of translators) should be restricted to the Pentateuch, as that is all that the "Seventy" actually translated, the Judean Law books. In time, though, the term Lxx began to stand for any book from Judean sacred writings preserved in Greek translation by Christian scribes.

In modern times (mostly) it was gradually recognized that some books were represented in two versions, especially when research began to ramp up on the Cairo Gineza documents, which included some biblical books in Greek translations that resembled the descriptions given of translations by Theodotian and Symmachus.

Daniel was one of these two-version books. The vast majority of manuscripts had a translation of Daniel that is now believed to be that of Theodotion. This is the version overwhelmingly represented in manuscripts of all types. The other one, which I believe is older in date of origin, is now sometimes called the "Old Greek" (OG) version.

While I understand that the Old Greek was a more natural translation (it flowed well), something about it rubbed Christians the wrong way, and the more literal translation of Theodotion was adopted as better suited for Christian "Christ speculations" when disputing with Judeans/Jews.

Daniel had thus had a long tradition of being used to advance secular agendas.

DCH
Last edited by DCHindley on Sat Apr 07, 2018 8:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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toejam
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Re: The shortening of the days.

Post by toejam »

^Thanks :-)
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Charles Wilson
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Re: The shortening of the days.

Post by Charles Wilson »

Mark 13: 17 - 20 (RSV):

[17] And alas for those who are with child and for those who give suck in those days!

[18] Pray that it may not happen in winter.
[19] For in those days there will be such tribulation as has not been from the beginning of the creation which God created until now, and never will be.
[20] And if the Lord had not shortened the days, no human being would be saved; but for the sake of the elect, whom he chose, he shortened the days.

I want to leave a short note on the possibilities based on verse 18. The statement is that in those days (past) there WAS a Tribulation, as pointed out by Ben. I have played "Match 'em Up" with verse 17 and reached the conclusion that this was a Story about Jannaeus. The Greek General Demetrius Eucerus has committed that Abomination of Desolation (Let the reader understand) and after nearly dying in the mountains, Jannaeus marches on Jerusalem after crucifying the Pharisees in front of their wives and children, who had their throats slit.

Look for a moment at Acts 1: 9 - 11 (RSV):

[9] And when he had said this, as they were looking on, he was lifted up, and a cloud took him out of their sight.
[10] And while they were gazing into heaven as he went, behold, two men stood by them in white robes,
[11] and said, "Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into heaven? This Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will come in the same way as you saw him go into heaven."

What is being stated here? That "Jesus" got into the Holy Elevator and got out at the thirteenth floor? No. A different view of this would be to say that someone was lifted up from those on the ground, forcing them to look up at "...this Jesus". "This Jesus" was placed at a privileged position atop a wagon perhaps? If this person were Royalty - Titus, for example - he would be surrounded by sufficient armed muscle to create a cloud of dust in the arid plains around Jerusalem. This is not Metaphysics at all. It could be a dressed up description of Post-Destruction Jerusalem. YMMV.

So, as you look at Mark 13, it appears that the materials for understanding the Passage are already at hand. Jannaeus faces death after years in the mountains or a last chance to survive by marching on Jerusalem with what he has. This last summer was the end for this movement. Jannaeus makes his move at the end of summer.

It is the Last Stand for this Branch of the Hasmoneans, the chosen of the Mishmarot Priesthood. The text must be massaged to make it appear Apocalyptic. The text even gets modified to imply that this has come from the Beginning, the Creation. It is, however, a description of the survival of Jannaeus and his Army.

YMMV.

CW
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