Was Against Marcion Book 3 Deliberately Inserted Between Books 2 and 4?

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Secret Alias
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Re: Was Against Marcion Book 3 Deliberately Inserted Between Books 2 and 4?

Post by Secret Alias »

So let's start with the conclusion of IA. Interestingly IA ends invoking an argument which is rejected by AM3. In IA it is implied that Christ will come in two advents and the second advent will be Christ appearing as a king, apparently of an earthly kingdom:
CONCLUSION OF AGAINST THE JEWS

Learn now (over and above the immediate question) the clue to your error. We affirm, two characters of the Christ demonstrated by the prophets, and as many advents of His forenoted: one, in humility (of course the first), when He has to be led "as a sheep for a victim; and, as a lamb voiceless before the shearer, so He opened not His mouth," not even in His aspect comely. [2] For "we have announced," says the prophet, "concerning Him, (He is) as a little child, as a root in a thirsty land; and there was not in Him attractiveness or glory. And we saw Him, and He had not attractiveness or grace; but His mien was unhonoured, deficient in comparison of the sons of men,"320 "a man set in the plague,321 and knowing how to bear infirmity: "to wit as having been set by the Father "for a stone of offence,"322 and "made a little lower" by Him "than angels,"323 He pronounces Himself "a worm, and not a man, an ignominy of man, and the refuse of the People."324 [3] Which evidences of ignobility suit the First Advent, just as those of sublimity do the Second; when He shall be made no longer "a stone of offence nor a rock of scandal," but "the highest corner-stone,"325 after reprobation (on earth) taken up (into heaven) and raised sublime for the purpose of consummation,326 and that "rock"--so we must admit--which is read of in Daniel as forecut from a mount, which shall crush and crumble the image of secular kingdoms.327 [4] Of which second advent of the same (Christ) Daniel has said: "And, behold, as it were a Son of man, coming with the clouds of the heaven, came unto the Ancient of days, and was present in His sight; and they who were standing by led (Him) unto Him. And there was given Him royal power; and all nations of the earth, according to their race, and all glory, shall serve Him: and His power is eternal, which shall not be taken away, and His kingdom one which shall not be corrupted."328 [5] Then, assuredly, is He to have an honourable mien, and a grace not "deficient more than the sons of men; "for (He will then be) "blooming in beauty in comparison with the sons of men."329 "Grace," says the Psalmist, "hath been outpoured in Thy lips: wherefore God hath blessed Thee unto eternity. Gird Thee Thy sword around Thy thigh, most potent in Thy bloom and beauty!"330 while the Father withal afterwards, after making Him somewhat lower than angels, "crowned Him with glory and honour and subjected all things beneath His feet."331 [6] And then shall they "learn to know Him whom they pierced, and shall beat their breasts tribe by tribe; "332 of course because in days bygone they did not know Him when conditionedin the humility of human estate. Jeremiah says: "He is a human being, and who will learn to know Him? "333 because, "His nativity," says Isaiah, "who shall declare?" [7] So, too, in Zechariah, in His own person, nay, in the very mystery334 of His name withal, the most true Priest of the Father, His own335 Christ, is delineated in a twofold garb with reference to the Two Advents.336 First, He was clad in "sordid attire," that is, in the indignity of passible and mortal flesh, when the devil, withal, was opposing himself to Him--the instigator, to wit, of Judas the traitor337 --who even after His baptism had tempted Him. In the next place, He was stripped of His former sordid raiment, and adorned with a garment down to the foot, and with a turban and a clean mitre, that is, (with the garb) of the Second Advent; since He is demonstrated as having attained "glory and honour." [8] Nor will you be able to say that the man (there depicted) is "the son of Jozadak,"338 who was never at all clad in a sordid garment, but was always adorned with the sacerdotal garment, nor ever deprived of the sacerdotal function. But the "Jesus"339 there alluded to is Christ, the Priest of God the most high Father; who at His First Advent came in humility, in human form, and passible, even up to the period of His passion; being Himself likewise made, through all (stages of suffering) a victim for us all; who after His resurrection was"clad with a garment down to the foot,"340 and named the Priest of God the Father unto eternity.341 [9] So, again, I will make an interpretation of the two goats which were habitually offered on the fast-day.342 Do not they, too, point to each successive stage in the character of the Christ who is already come? A pair, on the one hand, and consimilar (they were), because of the identity of the Lord's general appearance, inasmuch as He is not to come in some other form, seeing that He has to be recognised by those by whom He was once hurt. But the one of them, begirt with scarlet, amid cursing and universal spitting, and tearing, and piercing, was cast away by the People outside the city into perdition, marked with manifest tokens of Christ's passion; who, after being begirt with scarlet garment, and subjected to universal spitting, and afflicted with all contumelies, was crucified outside the city.343 The other, however: offered for sins, and given as food to the priests merely of the temple,344 gave signal evidences of the second appearance; in so far as, after the expiation of all sins, the priests of the spiritual temple, that is, of the church, were to enjoy345 a spiritual public distribution (as it were) of the Lord's grace, while all others are fasting from salvation.

[10] Therefore, since the vaticinations of the First Advent obscured it with manifold figures, and debased it with every dishonour, while the Second (was foretold as) manifest and wholly worthy of God, it has resulted therefrom, that, by fixing their gaze on that one alone which they could easily understand and believe (that is, the Second, which is in honour and glory), they have been (not undeservedly) deceived as to the more obscure--at all events, the more unworthy--that is, the First. And thus to the present moment they affirm that their Christ is not come, because He is not come in majesty; while they are ignorant of346 the fact that He was first to come in humility.

[11] Enough it is, meantime, to have thus far followed the stream downward of the order of Christ's course, whereby He is proved such as He was habitually announced: in order that, as a result of this harmony of the Divine Scriptures, we may understand; and that the events which used to be predicted as destined to take place after Christ may be believed to have been accomplished as the result of a divine arrangement. For unless He come after whom they had to be accomplished, by no means would the events, the future occurrence whereof was predictively assigned to His advent, have come to pass. [12] Therefore, if you see universal nations thenceforth emerging from the profundity of human error to God the Creator and His Christ (which you dare not assert to have not been prophesied, because, albeit you were so to assert, there would forthwith--as we have already premised347 --occur to you the promise of the Father saying, "My Son art Thou; I this day have begotten Thee; ask of Me, and I will give Thee Gentiles as Thine heritage, and as Thy possession the boundaries of the earth." Nor will you be able to vindicate, as the subject of that prediction, rather the son of David, Solomon, than Christ, God's Son; nor "the boundaries of the earth," as promised rather to David's son, who reigned within the single land of Judea, than to Christ the Son of God, who has already illumined the whole world348 with the rays of His gospel. [13] In short, again, a throne "unto the age"349 is more suitable to Christ, God's Son, than to Solomon,--a temporal king, to wit, who reigned over Israel alone. For at the present day nations are invoking Christ which used not to know Him; and peoples at the present day are fleeing in a body to the Christ of whom in days bygone they were ignorant350 ), you cannot contend that is future which you see taking place.351 [14] Either deny that these events were prophesied, while they are seen before your eyes; or else have been fulfilled, while you hear them read: or, on the other hand, if you fail to deny each position, they will have their fulfilment in Him with respect to whom they were prophesied.

Discite nunc ex abundantia erroris vestri ducatum. Duos dicimus Christi habitus a prophetis demonstratos, totidem adventus eius praenotatos: unum inhumilitate, utique primum, cum tamquam ovis ad victimam deduci habebat et tamquam agnus ante tondentem sine voce sic non aperiens os, ne aspectu quidem honestus. Adnuntiavimus enim, inquit, de illo: sicut puerulus, sicut radix in terra sitienti, et non erat ei species neque gloria, et vidimus eum et non habebat speciem neque decorem, sed species eius inhonorata, deficiens citra filios hominum, homo in plaga positus et sciens ferre infirmitatem, scilicet ut positus a patre in lapidem offensionis et minoratus ab eo modicum citra angelos,vermem se pronuntians et non hominem,ignominiam hominis et abiectionem populi. Quae ignobilitatis argumenta primo adventui competunt sicut sublimitatis secundo, cum fiet iam non lapis offensionis nec petra scandali, sed lapis summus angularis post reprobationem adsumptus et sublimatus in consummationem et petra sane illa apud Danielem de monte praecisa quae imaginem saecularium regnorum comminuet et conteret. De quo secundo adventu eius prophetes: Et ecce cum nubibus caeli tamquam filius hominis veniens venit usque ad veterem dierum et aderat in conspectu eius et qui adsistebant adduxerunt illum; et data est ei potestas regia et omnes nationes terrae secundum genus et omnis gloria serviens illi et potestas illius aeterna quae non auferetur et regnum eius quod non corrumpetur. Tunc scilicet speciem honorabilem et decorem habiturus est indeficientem supra filios hominum -- tempestivus enim decore ultra filios hominum; effusa est gratia [inquit] in labiis tuis, propterea benedixit te deus in saecula; accingere ensem tuum circa femur tuum, potentissime tempestivitate et pulchritudine tua --, cum et pater, posteaquam diminuit illum modicum quid citra angelos, gloria et honore coronavit illum et subiecit omnia sub pedibus eius. Et tunc cognoscent eum quem pupugerunt et caedent pectora sua tribus ad tribum, utique quod retro non agnoverint eum in humilitate condicionis humanae constitutum. Et homo est, inquit Hieremias, et quis cognoscet illum, quia et nativitatem eius, inquit Esaias, quis enarrabit? Sic et apud Zachariam [ait] in persona Iesu, immo et in ipsius nominis sacramento verissimus sacerdos patris Christus ipsius duplici habitu in duos adventus deliniatur: primo sordibus indutus id est carnis passibilis et mortalis indignitate, cum et diabolus adversabatur ei, auctor scilicet Iudae traditoris qui eum etiam post baptismum temptaverat, dehinc spoliatus pristinas sordes, exornatus podere et mitra et cidari munda id est secundi adventus, quoniam gloriam et honorem adeptus
demonstratur. Nec poteritis eum Iosedech filium dicere qui nulla omnino veste sordida sed semper sacerdotali fuit exornatus nec umquam sacerdotali munere privatus, sed Iesus iste Christus dei patris summi sacerdos qui primo adventu suo humanae formae et passibilis venit in humilitate usque ad passionem, ipse effectus
etiam hostia per omnia pro omnibus nobis, qui post resurrectionem suam indutus
podere sacerdos in aeternum dei patris nuncupatur. [9] Sic enim et duorum hircorum
qui ieiunio offerebantur faciam interpretationem. Nonne et illi utrumque ordinem
Christi qui iam venit ostendunt, pares quidem atque consimiles propter eundem
domini conspectum, quia non in alia venturus est forma, ut qui agnosci habet a
quibus et laesus est; unus autem eorum circumdatus coccino maledictus et consputatus
et convulsus et compunctus a populo extra civitatem abiciebatur in perditionem,
manifestis notatus insignibus Christi passionis qui coccinea circumdatus
veste et consputatus et omnibus contumeliis adflictus extra civitatem crucifixus
est; alter vero pro delictis oblatus et sacerdotibus tantum templi in pabulum datus
secundae repraesentationis argumenta signabat, quia delictis omnibus expiatis
sacerdotes templi spiritalis id est ecclesiae dominicae gratiae quasi visceratione
quadam fruerentur ieiunantibus ceteris a salute. [10] Igitur quoniam primus adventus
et plurimis figuris obscuratus et omni inhonestate prostratus canebatur, secundus vero et manifestus et deo dignus, idcirco quem facile et intellegere et credere potuerunt eum solum intuentes id est secundum qui est in honore et gloria non inmerito decepti sunt circa obscuriorem certe indigniorem id est primum. Atque ita in hodiernum negant venisse Christum suum, quia non in sublimitate venerit, dum ignorant in humilitate primum fuisse venturum.

[11] Sufficit hucusque de his interim ordinem Christi decucurrisse, quo talis probatur qualis adnuntiabatur, ut iam ex ista consonantia scripturarum divinarum [intellegamus] et quae post Christum futura praedicabantur ex dispositione divina credantur expuncta. Nisi enim ille venisset post quem habebant expungi, nullo modo evenissent quae in adventu eius futura praedicabantur. [12] Igitur si universas nationes de profundo erroris humani exinde emergentes ad deum creatorem et Christum eius cernitis, -- quod prophetatum non audetis negare, quia et si negaretis statim vobis in psalmis, sicuti iam praelocuti sumus, promissio patris occurreret dicentis: Filius meus es tu, ego hodie genui te; pete a me et dabo tibi gentes hereditatem tuam et possessionem tuam terminos terrae. Nec poteritis in istam praedicationem magis David filium Solomonem vindicare quam Christum dei filium nec terminos terrae David filio promissos qui intra unicam Iudaeam regnavit quam Christo filio dei qui totum iam orbem evangelii sui radiis inluminavit. [13] Denique et thronus in aevum magis Christo dei filio competit quam Solomoni, temporali scilicet regi qui solo Israeli regnavit. Christum enim hodie invocant nationes quae eum non sciebant et populi hodie ad Christum confugiunt quem retro ignorabant. Non potes futurum contendere quod vides fieri. [14] Haec aut prophetata nega, cum coram videntur, aut adimpleta, cum leguntur; aut si non negas utrumque, in eo erunt adimpleta in quem sunt prophetata.

Adversus Marcionem 3.7

Discat nunc haereticus ex abundanti cum ipso licebit Iudaeo rationem quoque errorum eius, a quo ducatum mutuatus in hac argumentatione caecus a caeco in eandem decidit foveam. Duos dicimus Christi habitus a prophetis demonstratos totidem adventus eius praenotasse: unum in humilitate, utique primum, cum tanquam ovis ad victimam deduci habebat, et tanquam agnus ante tondentem sine voce, ita non aperiens os suum, ne aspectu quidem honestus. Annuntiavimus enim, inquit, de illo: sicut puerulus, sicut radix in terra sitienti, et non est species eius neque gloria,
et vidimus eum, et non habebat speciem neque decorem, sed species eius inhonorata, deficiens citra filios hominum, homo in plaga, et sciens ferre infirmitatem, ut positus a patre in lapidem offensionis et petram scandali, minoratus ab eo modicum citra angelos, vermem se pronuntians et non hominem, ignominiam hominis et nullificamen populi. Quae ignobilitatis argumenta primo adventui competunt, sicut sublimitatis secundo, cum fiet iam non lapis offensionis nec petra scandali, sed lapis summus angularis post reprobationem adsumptus et sublimatus in consummationem templi, ecclesiae scilicet, et petra sane illa apud Danielem de monte praecisa, quae imaginem saecularium regnorum comminuet et conteret. De quo adventu idem prophetes, Et ecce cum nubibus caeli tanquam filius hominis veniens, venit usque ad veterem dierum, aderat in conspectu eius, et qui adsistebant adduxerunt illum, et data est ei potestas regia, et omnes nationes terrae secundum genera, et omnis gloria famulabunda, et potestas eius usque in aevum, quae non auferetur, et regnum eius quod non vitiabitur, tunc scilicet habiturus et speciem honorabilem et decorem indeficientem super filios hominum. Tempestivus enim, inquit, decore citra filios hominum, effusa est gratia in labiis tuis, propterea benedixit te deus in aevum. Accingere ensem super femur tuum, potens tempestivitate tua et pulchritudine tua; cum et pater, posteaquam diminuit eum modicum quid citra angelos, gloria et honore coronabit illum et subiciet omnia pedibus eius.Tunc et cognoscent eum qui compugerunt, et caedent pectora sua tribus ad tribum, utique quod retro non agnoverunt eum in humilitate condicionis humanae : Et homo est, inquit Hieremias, et quis cognoscet illum? Quia et, Nativitatem eius Esaias, quis, inquit, enarrabit? Sic et apud Zachariam in persona Iesu, immo
et in ipso nominis sacramento, verus summus sacerdos patris, Christus Iesus, duplici habitu in duos adventus delineatur, primo sordidis indutus, id est carnis passibilis et mortalis indignitate, cum et diabolus adversabatur ei, auctor scilicet Iudae traditoris, ne dicam etiam post baptisma temptator, dehinc despoliatus pristinas sordes, et exornatus podere et mitra et cidari munda, id est secundi adventus gloria et honore.


Si enim et duorum hircomm qui ieiunio offerebantur faciam interpretationem, nonne et illi utrumque ordinem Christi figurant? Pares quidem atque
consimiles propter eundem dominum1 conspectum, quia non in alia venturus est fonna, ut qui agnosci habeat a quibus laesus est. Alter autem eorum circumdatus coccino, maledictus et consputus et convulsus et compunctus, a populo extra civitatem adiciebatur2 in perditionem, manifestis notatus insignibus domini- cae passionis. Alter vero, pro delictis oblatus et sacerdotibus templi in pabulum datus, secundae repraesentationis argumenta signabat, qua delictis omnibus expiatis sacerdotes templi spiritalis, id est ecclesiae, dominicae gratiae quasi visceratione quadam fruerentur, ieiunantibus ceteris a salute. [8] Igitur quoniam primus adventus et plurimum figuris obscuratus et omni inhonestate prostratus canebatur, secundus vero et manifestus et deo con- dignus, idcirco quem facile et intellegere et credere potuerunt, eum solum intuentes, id est secundum, non immerito decepti sunt circa obscuriorem, certe indigniorem, id est primum. Atque ita in hodiernum negant venisse Christum suum, quia non in sublimitate venerit, dum ignorant etiam in humilitate fuisse venturum.[/b]

This entire section isn't just removed from AM3. It is (a) placed in an earlier chapter but more importantly - a systematic refutation of this argument is made in its place. It's like the author of AM3 is trying to correct the original author. Instead of Christ returning as a king after Jesus's crucifixion, presumably to rule over a wholly earthly kingdom. Now Christ appears riding a cloud from heaven (the only line which is retained is Daniel's expectation of the Son of Man from 7.14) leading the descent of the heavenly Jerusalem onto Judea.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
andrewcriddle
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Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 12:36 am

Re: Was Against Marcion Book 3 Deliberately Inserted Between Books 2 and 4?

Post by andrewcriddle »

Secret Alias wrote: Sun Mar 18, 2018 10:49 am Another question I thought of today while playing tennis with my wife. What evidence is there for the use of Latin in North Africa? What sorts of people spoke Latin there?
See Acts of th Scillitan Martyrs written in Latin in North Africa c 180 CE.

Andrew Criddle
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