Re: Pilate and Josephus
Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 12:07 pm
You like this section because of its relationship to Josephus. But it is not original to Mark or the synoptics.
Investigating the roots of western civilization (ye olde BC&H forum of IIDB lives on...)
https://earlywritings.com/forum/
Could you be more specific.....what section is 'not original to Mark or the synoptics' ?Secret Alias wrote: ↑Wed Mar 28, 2018 12:07 pm You like this section because of its relationship to Josephus. But it is not original to Mark or the synoptics.
Well - if something does not make sense then perhaps it's not meant to be taken literally. In this case, the Herod (Antipas) Herodias and John the Baptist story, it's seems more likely to be an allegory than historical.Secret Alias wrote: ↑Wed Mar 28, 2018 11:31 am And I think the ending tacked on Mark 6:17 was added to harmonize with Josephus:
ὅτι αὐτὴν ἐγάμησεν
There is something puzzling about the narrative:
or Herod himself had given orders to have John arrested, and he had him bound and put in prison. He did this because of Herodias, his brother Philip’s wife, whom he had married. 18 For John had been saying to Herod, “It is not lawful for you to have your brother’s wife.” 19 So Herodias nursed a grudge against John and wanted to kill him. But she was not able to, 20 because Herod feared John and protected him, knowing him to be a righteous and holy man. When Herod heard John, he was amazed; yet he liked to listen to him.
Herodias's anger at John doesn't make any sense to me.
Herod (Antipas) is a historical figure. The gospel story has him married to Herodias prior to the Jesus crucifixion story. Consequently, dating that marriage has relevance to dating the gospel crucifixion story. The allegory i.e. the gospel story regarding Herod (Antipas), Herodias and John the Baptist, is a separate issue to the history of the marriage of Herod (Antipas) and Herodias.Secret Alias wrote: ↑Thu Mar 29, 2018 12:05 pm But if it is an allegory then how is it a chronological problem for the dating of the gospel?
Stephan, I already pointed out the reasoning for dating this marriage: Herod (Antipas) divorced his wife, the daughter of Aretas. Aretas goes to war with Herod (Antipas). A war just prior to the death of Tiberius in 37 c.e. Yes, of course, one can question everything that Josephus writes. However, in this case, because the Josephan story reflects figures from the gospel story it is perhaps wise to consider any relationship between them. A straightforward reading of Josephus - without any knowledge of the gospel Herod (Antipas) Herodias and John the Baptist story - would place the marriage of Herod (Antipas) to Herodias shortly before the war with Aretas.Secret Alias wrote: ↑Thu Mar 29, 2018 2:17 pm But is the marriage between Herod and Herodias datable?
There was no birth recorded for Jesus in the earliest gospel. Irrelevant.a birth narrative 49 (7x7) years earlier, around 28 b.c.
I know that you now want to uphold the Acts of Pilate 7th year of Tiberius
A birth narrative of an 'anointed one' is placed, in Slavonic Josephus, prior to the 15th year of Herod.Secret Alias wrote: ↑Fri Mar 30, 2018 7:47 pm'a birth narrative 49 (7x7) years earlier, around 28 b.c.
There was no birth recorded for Jesus in the earliest gospel. Irrelevant.
I know that you now want to uphold the Acts of Pilate 7th year of Tiberius
Yes, agreed, the Acts of Pilate date is interesting - but so too are all the other crucifixion dates that can be interpreted from the sources dealing with Pilate's time in Judea.
When you don't have fixed positions you go where you are led. It doesn't mean you stay. The Acts of Pilate date for the gospel in interesting. I like interesting. interesting is never predictable.