Sator Square

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
Secret Alias
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Sator Square

Post by Secret Alias »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sator_Square

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A very curious and cryptic anagram was discovered at two places in Pompeii a city in Italy destroyed by an eruption of Mount Vesuvius in A.D. 70. The form of the anagram is:

ROTAS.
OPERA.
TENET.
AREPO.
SATOR

Another example of the same anagram, dating from the third century A.d., appears in the ruins of Dura-Europos on the Euphrates River. And a third, dating from the fourth century a.d., turned up in faraway Cirencester, England. Other examples of the anagram, dating from the Middle Ages, have been found in various places in Europe. In some cases the order of the lines from top to bottom is reversed, but in any case the lines are the same, whether read vertically or horizontally. Several interpretations of the anagram have been proposed, but it has been observed that these same letters can be rearranged in the form of a cross. In that case they form the first two words of the Lord's Prayer in Latin, both horizontally and vertically preceded by the letter A and followed by the letter O, which correspond to the letters alpha and omega (the first and the last) of the Greek alphabet. If this interpretation of the anagram is correct, its discovery in Pompeii would indicate that there was a Christian congregation in that Roman city before a.d. 79. It would also show that the form in which the Lord's Prayer appears in Matthew is probably the earliest. https://books.google.com/books?id=9b3YA ... 0Q6AEIKTAA

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https://www.the-tls.co.uk/were-there-ch ... -evidence/

The argument there were Christians at Pompeii is argued by this:

http://www.roger-pearse.com/weblog/2017 ... m-pompeii/



And was the subject of this recent book:

http://fortresspress.com/product/crosse ... uvian-town
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
Secret Alias
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Re: Sator Square

Post by Secret Alias »

A sub-question would be - where there Christians at Pompeii?
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
Secret Alias
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Re: Sator Square

Post by Secret Alias »

"According to the two scholars who have been editing inscriptions from Roman Britain, 'the arguments for a non-Christian origin are even more strained than the Christian explanation and are not conclusive'." suggesting that 'Our Father' had become a secret sign among Latin-speaking Christians in Italy before 79 AD." https://books.google.com/books?id=5UGRW ... nd&f=false
Last edited by Secret Alias on Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
Stuart
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Re: Sator Square

Post by Stuart »

Secret Alias wrote: Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:36 am A sub-question would be - where there Christians at Pompeii?
The answer is simply no. There is absolutely no evidence of any Christians, outside of likely interpolated passages in histories, being anywhere in the 1st century, beyond the Christian tales themselves in their own literature. Archeology has found nothing conclusive, or even much that suggests any possibility.

It was probably a cute anagram that was popular. It could have been merely the symbol of a profession, like Masons in the middle ages. I would be inclined to think if it was religiously related, then it's probably Mithraic, as there is strong evidence many of their temples were taken over by churches, and some of these have been found in churches.

Christians confiscated many pre-Christian Roman titles, such as the Emperor's religious title, Pontifex Maximus, for the pope. There were no doubt many Greco-Roman cults that used "our father" in their liturgy. Quite possibly the symbolism in Revelation of Alpha - Omega for beginning and end is simply another appropriation of a common Greek religious element.

This is much more easily explained as belonging to something other than Christianity or Judaism, much as our modern bias wants us to find it.
Last edited by Stuart on Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
“’That was excellently observed’, say I, when I read a passage in an author, where his opinion agrees with mine. When we differ, there I pronounce him to be mistaken.” - Jonathan Swift
Secret Alias
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Re: Sator Square

Post by Secret Alias »

and the graffito that mentions "christianos"?
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
Secret Alias
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Re: Sator Square

Post by Secret Alias »

“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
Secret Alias
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Re: Sator Square

Post by Secret Alias »

For the idea Lampe - "In my view, the most interesting example in Pompeii is the graffito C/L 4:679, from an atrium wall of the house "Vico del Balcone pensile" No. 22, which has as a constituent part the letters "CHRISTIAN."4 The text obviously speaks of Christians. But the reconstruction of the rest of the text is completely controversial. Are we dealing with a Christian inscription? Or with an insult to the Christians? Whoever made the scribble evidently had once had contact, direct or indirect, with Christians." https://books.google.com/books?id=vOoxG ... 22&f=false
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
Secret Alias
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Re: Sator Square

Post by Secret Alias »

Congratulazioni, e grazie di tutto
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
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rakovsky
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Re: Sator Square

Post by rakovsky »

Secret Alias wrote: Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:28 am
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My guess is that it was Christian, and I find numerous pieces of evidence for this like the picture above, but the evidence is circumstantial.

Romans of the time liked to play with anagrams and such puzzles. If the square is an anagram puzzle, and this is likely if there were other known square anagrams, then it looks like the decipherment is Our Father in a cross surrounded by the Alpha and Omega.

There is other such circumstantial evidence like its clear later longtime use by Christians in many places, its creation in the Christian era, its appearance in locations possibly or likely having some Christians like Pompei and Dur Europa. Christians at the time were a semi illegal group hiding their religion in symbols like fish and anchors, so this is the kind of thing that they would create.

My research on the prophecies of the Messiah's resurrection: http://rakovskii.livejournal.com
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