Romans 10.6-7, Jonah, and Moses.

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Ben C. Smith
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Romans 10.6-7, Jonah, and Moses.

Post by Ben C. Smith »

This forum has discussed the following verses (especially 6-7) before:

Romans 10.5-10: 5 For Moses writes that the man who practices the righteousness which is based on law shall live by that righteousness. 6 But the righteousness based on faith speaks thus, "Do not say in your heart, 'Who will ascend into heaven [εἰς τὸν οὐρανόν]?' (that is, to bring Christ down), 7 or 'Who will descend into the abyss [εἰς τὴν ἄβυσσον]?' (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead)." 8 But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" — that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved; 10 for with the heart man believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

It is well known that Paul is here relying upon a passage from Deuteronomy:

Deuteronomy 30.12-14: 12 "It is not in heaven, that you should say, 'Who will go into heaven [LXX εἰς τὸν οὐρανὸν] for us to get it for us and make us hear it, that we may observe it?' 13 Nor is it beyond the sea, that you should say, 'Who will go across the sea [LXX εἰς τὸ πέραν τῆς θαλάσσης] for us to get it for us and make us hear it, that we may observe it?' 14 But the word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may observe it."

But, whereas Paul wonders about descending "into the abyss" (LXX εἰς τὸν οὐρανόν), Deuteronomy speaks merely going "across the sea" (LXX εἰς τὸ πέραν τῆς θαλάσσης). Is Paul freewheeling here?

Perhaps, rather, he is tapping into a Jewish tradition which is now extant only in a Targum:

Targum Jerusalem, Deuteronomy 30.12-14: 12 The law is not in the heavens, that thou shouldst say, O that we had one like Mosheh the prophet to ascend into heaven, and bring it to us, and make us hear its commands, that we may do them! 13 Neither is the law beyond the great sea, that thou shouldst say, O that we had one like Jonah the prophet, who could descend into the depths [לעמקוי] of the great sea, and bring it to us, and make us hear its commands, that we may do them! 14 For the word is very nigh you, in your mouth, that you may meditate upon it, and in your hearts, that you may perform it. See, behold, I have set before you this day the way of life, which is the path of the good, and the way of death, which is the path of the evil.

Here, instead of being invited to imagine merely crossing the sea, the reader is invited to imagine descending into the depths like Jonah. Paul, if he knew of this interpretation involving Jonah, could have been led quite naturally to refer to the abyss by the following:

Jonah 2.5: 5 "Water encompassed me to the point of death. The abyss [LXX ἄβυσσος] engulfed me; weeds were wrapped around my head."

And it almost goes without saying that the Targumic interpretation of the ascent involving Moses fits well into Paul's context, which mentions Moses specifically and has to do with the law.

It is tempting to interpret the part about Moses in terms of his ascent to heaven (instead of dying) in Jewish lore, but I think the context of Moses bringing the law down to humans in the Targum leads us instead to the Sinai event, at which the heavens supposedly descended to the top of the mountain so that God himself could descend and meet with Moses:

Pseudo-Philo, Biblical Antiquities 15.6: 6 And there hath not been the like of this word since the day when I said: Let the waters under the heaven be gathered into one place, unto this day. And I brought them out, and slew their enemies and led them before me unto the Mount Sina. And I bowed the heavens and descended [inclinavi coelos et descendi] to kindle a lamp for my people, and to set bounds to all creatures. And I taught them to make me a sanctuary that I might dwell among them. But they have forsaken me and become faithless in my words, and their mind hath fainted, and now behold the days shall come when I will do unto them as they have desired and I will cast forth their bodies in the wilderness.

4 Ezra 3.17-18: 17 And when thou didst lead his descendants out of Egypt, thou didst bring them to Mount Sinai. 18 Thou didst bend down the heavens [inclinasti caelos] and shake the earth, and move the world, and make the depths to tremble, and trouble the times.

There are times when Paul or other authors quote the Hebrew scriptures inexactly, changing the wording for their own purposes, and there are times when it seems like they may be quoting existing variants of the text instead. This very much looks like one of those latter times to me, despite the unknown date of the Targum which offers such a juicy parallel.

Thoughts?

Ben.
Last edited by Ben C. Smith on Mon Nov 30, 2020 6:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Nathan
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Re: Romans 10.6-7, Jonah, and Moses.

Post by Nathan »

Ben C. Smith wrote: Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:48 pm It is tempting to interpret the part about Moses in terms of his ascent to heaven (instead of dying) in Jewish lore, but I think the context of Moses bringing the law down to humans in the Targum leads us instead to the Sinai event ...
Definitely. The standard rabbinic view is that Moses ascended to heaven to receive the Torah. For example:

Targum Song of Songs 1.11-12: 11 Then it was said to Moses: "Ascend to the firmament [לרקיעא] and I will give you two tables of stone, hewn from the sapphire of the throne of My glory, gleaming like fine gold, arranged in lines and written by My finger." ... 12 ... Moses their teacher was in the firmament [ברקיעא] to receive two tables of stone ...

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Re: Romans 10.6-7, Jonah, and Moses.

Post by Ben C. Smith »

Nathan wrote: Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:31 pm
Ben C. Smith wrote: Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:48 pm It is tempting to interpret the part about Moses in terms of his ascent to heaven (instead of dying) in Jewish lore, but I think the context of Moses bringing the law down to humans in the Targum leads us instead to the Sinai event ...
Definitely. The standard rabbinic view is that Moses ascended to heaven to receive the Torah. For example:

Targum Song of Songs 1.11-12: 11 Then it was said to Moses: "Ascend to the firmament [לרקיעא] and I will give you two tables of stone, hewn from the sapphire of the throne of My glory, gleaming like fine gold, arranged in lines and written by My finger." ... 12 ... Moses their teacher was in the firmament [ברקיעא] to receive two tables of stone ...

Thank you. Good one.
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Re: Romans 10.6-7, Jonah, and Moses.

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The idea of the heavens bending to Sinai was a reactionary understanding developed for the sake of monarchianism. It wasn't very old. Only as old as the second century or so (i.e. the debates with people like Justin Martyr). Paul can't be referencing things only developed in reaction to the two powers in heaven business.
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Re: Romans 10.6-7, Jonah, and Moses.

Post by Secret Alias »

I will be honest with you. I have no idea what the passage in Romans originally was driving at or about. I get the sense that the passage was corrupted into something else - weak, typically orthodox. But no idea what the original sense of the passage was about or what it looked like.
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Re: Romans 10.6-7, Jonah, and Moses.

Post by Secret Alias »

The earliest Christian citation I see is Clement in Stromata 4:

"With the heart man believeth unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Wherefore the Scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on Him shall not be ashamed; that is, the word of faith which we preach: for if thou confess the word with thy mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in thy heart that God hath raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." There is clearly described the perfect righteousness, fulfilled both in practice and contemplation. Wherefore we are "to bless those who persecute us. Bless, and curse not." " For our rejoicing is this, the testimony of a good conscience, that in holiness and sincerity we know God" by this inconsiderable instance exhibiting the work of love, that "not in fleshly wisdom, but by the grace of God, we have had our conversation in the world."
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Re: Romans 10.6-7, Jonah, and Moses.

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I think there is a hint as to what Paul is understood to have meant in this passage from the Exhortation:

Nor is it difficult to approach, or impossible to attain, but is very near us in our very homes; as Moses, endowed with all wisdom, says, while referring to it, it has its abode in three departments of our constitution--in the hands, the mouth, and the heart: a meet emblem this of truth, which is embraced by these three things in all--will, action, speech. And be not afraid lest the multitude of pleasing objects which rise before you withdraw you from wisdom. You yourself will spontaneously surmount the frivolousness of custom, as boys when they have become men throw aside their toys. For with a celerity unsurpassable, and a benevolence to which we have ready access, the divine power, casting its radiance on the earth, hath filled the universe with the seed of salvation. For it was not without divine care that so great a work was accomplished in so brief a space by the Lord, who, though despised as to appearance, was in reality adored, the expiator of sin, the Saviour, the clement, the Divine Word, He that is truly most manifest Deity, He that is made equal to the Lord of the universe; because He was His Son, and the Word was in God, not disbelieved in by all when He was first preached, nor altogether unknown when, assuming the character of man, and fashioning Himself in flesh, He enacted the drama of human salvation: for He was a true champion and a fellow-champion with the creature. And being communicated most speedily to men, having dawned from His Father's counsel quicker than the sun, with the most perfect ease He made God shine on us. Whence He was and what He was, He showed by what He taught and exhibited, manifesting Himself as the Herald of the Covenant, the Reconciler, our Saviour, the Word, the Fount of life, the Giver of peace, diffused over the whole face of the earth; by whom, so to speak, the universe has already become an ocean of blessings.
Last edited by Secret Alias on Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Romans 10.6-7, Jonah, and Moses.

Post by Secret Alias »

Odd that Clement reverses the order of Deuteronomy LXX and Philo (usually his source). Clement:

χερσὶ καὶ στόματι καὶ καρδίᾳ

Philo:

στόματι, και καρδία, καΐ χερσί

LXX

ἔστιν σου ἐγγὺς τὸ ῥῆμα σφόδρα ἐν τῷ στόματί σου καὶ ἐν τῇ καρδίᾳ σου καὶ ἐν ταῖς χερσίν σου αὐτὸ ποιεῖν

The odd thing about the entire section in Clement (Exhortation) is that he cites Deuteromony badly throughout. The ten commandments are not cited in order either.

Thou shalt not kill; thou shalt not commit adultery; thou shalt not seduce boys; thou shalt not steal; thou shalt not bear false witness; thou shalt love the Lord thy God

"Οὐ φονεύσεις, οὐ μοιχεύσεις, οὐ παιδοφθορήσεις, οὐ κλέψεις, οὐ ψευδο μαρτυρήσεις, ἀγαπήσεις κύριον τὸν θεόν σου."

Matt 19:18-19 λέγει αὐτῷ· Ποίας; ὁ δὲ Ἰησοῦς εἶπεν· Τὸ οὐ φονεύσεις, οὐ μοιχεύσεις, οὐ κλέψεις, οὐ ψευδομαρτυρήσεις, 19τίμα τὸν πατέρα καὶ τὴν μητέρα, καί ἀγαπήσεις τὸν πλησίον σου ὡς σεαυτόν.

Mark 10:19 τὰς ἐντολὰς οἶδας· Μὴ φονεύσῃς, μὴ μοιχεύσῃς, μὴ κλέψῃς, μὴ ψευδομαρτυρήσῃς, μὴ ἀποστερήσῃς, τίμα τὸν πατέρα σου καὶ τὴν μητέρα.

Clement's citation of Mark 10:19 in QDS Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and thy mother.
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Re: Romans 10.6-7, Jonah, and Moses.

Post by Ben C. Smith »

Secret Alias wrote: Thu Feb 08, 2018 7:12 am The idea of the heavens bending to Sinai was a reactionary understanding developed for the sake of monarchianism. It wasn't very old. Only as old as the second century or so (i.e. the debates with people like Justin Martyr). Paul can't be referencing things only developed in reaction to the two powers in heaven business.
In that case, assuming that this passage is Pauline, we would have Paul changing "across the sea" to "into the abyss" on his own, by way of comparing the deep sea with Christ in the grave. So far so good. But then the Targumist also changes "across the sea" to "into the deep" and simultaneously throws in a reference to Jonah, a decidedly famous symbol of Christ in the grave; and Jonah's prayer references the abyss, to complete the circle. Was the Targumist influenced both by Paul and by the Christian Jonah motif, were the changes coincidental, or are you saying that the Targumic Jonah motif is early but the Moses motif is late? (They sure seem to go together in the Targum.)

Alternately, can this part of Romans be late? It seems to be missing in Marcion.
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Re: Romans 10.6-7, Jonah, and Moses.

Post by John2 »

Ben wrote:
There are times when Paul or other authors quote the Hebrew scriptures inexactly, changing the wording for their own purposes, and there are times when it seems like they may be quoting existing variants of the text instead. This very much looks like one of those latter times to me, despite the unknown date of the Targum which offers such a juicy parallel.

Thoughts?
I haven't thought about the Targums in a long while, but as I refresh my memory, while they do have uncertain dating, people were at least making targums pre-70 CE, given the Qumran Targum of Job. And it would make sense to me if Paul was familiar with targums given his Pharisaic background and statement in Gal. 1:14 that he was "advancing in Judaism beyond many of my own age among my people and was extremely zealous for the traditions of my fathers." And I see that some do argue that Paul knew Aramaic.

https://www.quora.com/What-languages-di ... Paul-speak
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